Charlie - Why is This Funny?

Charlie is an accomplished actor with an impressive list of accomplishments. He currently plays the role of Roger Davies in "Tina" on Broadway and his previous credits include: The Bridges of Madison County (Original Broadway Cast), Parade (Lincoln Center). TV credits include Shades of Blue, The Loudest Voice. But I wanted to talk with him about the time he spent in his Broadway role in The Book of Mormon (Broadway).

I had a blast with this conversation and we talked about religion, acting, fears and our inner critic, banned books, taking offense and being offensive, self reflection, and the importance of theater and the arts. This is one you're going to love!

Transcript

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Strangers You Know: Episode 106 - Charlie

Charlie [00:00:00] See. 

Brian [00:00:01] Hey, hey, hey. That make you nervous? 

Charlie [00:00:03] Yeah. 

Brian [00:00:04] Yeah, definitely. AUDIENCE Now, does your audiences make you nervous? 

Charlie [00:00:08] Ooh, boy, it feels like I'm right onstage. Oh, how you been? I'm great. How are you, man? 

Brian [00:00:18] Good. Good. Hey, so let me just give you a couple of quick intros. First of all, I have a great studio set up in my house to do this. And then you wanted to do it on Zoom. So I ripped everything out and moved it across the room, set it all up. It is such a cluster in here right now. 

Charlie [00:00:35] I am going to some people's lives up. 

Brian [00:00:37] On for Harry Potter books to get the right angle for my. 

Charlie [00:00:42] Now you know my voiceover life is like I am like you know, set up in my closet, you know, holding my computer or a microphone being like, Oh, it's not pretty. But that's the life of I don't know, I don't know any of my friends that do it differently. If they have to do a voiceover audition or anything like that, they're like, Oh yeah, you know, I sit in my tiny New York City closet and yeah, I do my best. Yeah, but hey, whatever works. 

Brian [00:01:10] So I want this to be a conversation, not an interview. I've got a bunch of questions, but feel free to derail. If you find something you want to talk about, let me know. Let's go there. Right. 

Charlie [00:01:21] I'm sure I will. Awesome. If not by accident, I definitely will. 

Brian [00:01:25] That's great. Also, along with along with that, if I do ask a question or if you ask a question, don't give me your first answer. Give me your best answer. If you're like, wow, that's going to take a second. Yeah, take a second. And if you want to come back to it or you want to just think I'm going to just record the whole thing, start to finish. Great. But if you want to record, if we want to cut out big gaps or whatever, like you said, if you need a jump off later to do something, let me know. We'll just break it. We'll cut out, we'll do it and we'll splice it back together later. 

Charlie [00:01:59] Perfect. Okay, great. Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm not really good at interviews because I never know how to put things into words. I should have told you this before you ask to interview me. I'm sorry to have a conversation. Time. I got Harry Potter books out. Yeah, I just. I always. I try to think of what to say, and then after it ends, I go, oh, you know, I should have said, you know, this or that or that's honestly, that's not even what I probably think. So I do like the idea of having time to to flesh this out in my mind. I think it's a little bit before I, you know, just throw an answer at you. 

Brian [00:02:34] Yeah. And I think a lot of interviews when they do that, it's like, oh, so what's your answer? Oh, I should have already had that ready. So you throw something out and immediately you're like, That's not what I should have said. Great, stop yourself mid-sentence. Let's back up, try it again or say, don't even ask me that question. That's a stupid question. I'm tired of answering that question. Here's a better. Great, let's do that. Right. 

Charlie [00:02:54] Well, I guess the good thing about interviewing me here is that I do feel like I am maybe not unqualified, but I for for what you're doing, I'm excited to see what kind of answers I have anyway. So yeah, this is exciting. 

Brian [00:03:09] Okay, so my tagline for the show is honest, vulnerable and brave. 

Charlie [00:03:16] Okay. 

Brian [00:03:17] So I know a version of you. I know that you in the public setting, I know you a little bit as couple as part of a couple. I know a little bit of you. I want to know what what really goes on in your head. Maybe if you're feeling up to it, things, you're not really comfortable with yourself. 

Charlie [00:03:41] Wow. 

Brian [00:03:42] That's kind of what I want to get to is not just the whole Hey, so what's it like working you do in your job and give me if you were a car, if you were a Disney character, what Disney character did. I don't want to know what Hogwarts House you were in. 

Charlie [00:03:56] Sure, sure, sure. 

Brian [00:03:57] I want to know what scares the women. 

Charlie [00:03:59] It's Ravenclaw. 

Brian [00:04:00] But Ravenclaw. Look, just in case. Just for the record. 

Charlie [00:04:03] I just need to say. Well, honest, vulnerable and brave. I am if. If not three of those things. I'm definitely honest and vulnerable. So I am. I'll be brave for this. And I will I will jump off the cliff for you. I try to open up. 

Brian [00:04:22] I don't think you can be vulnerable without being brave. I mean, that's kind of what we're looking at. 

Charlie [00:04:26] I guess that's that's probably true. Yeah. Yeah. But how brave, I guess is the question I can be. But how vulnerable, I guess is also the question. Right. So we'll see. And if you're honest, you should be all those things anyway. 

Brian [00:04:40] Right? 

Charlie [00:04:41] We'll see. 

Brian [00:04:42] Sometimes the person we lie to most is our self, though, right? 

Charlie [00:04:45] Oh, boy. 

Brian [00:04:46] And we don't even know we're doing it because we're. We've gotten so good at it. 

Charlie [00:04:50] Oh, gosh. Is this therapy? 

Brian [00:04:52] No, it's worse. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. 

Charlie [00:04:55] It's worse. I'm just. 

Brian [00:04:57] Going to bring up all these pain bodies and just let you. 

Charlie [00:05:00] Do in it. Good. Perfect. Definitely. 

Brian [00:05:02] You made me back in your closet, curl up in a ball by the end of it. 

Charlie [00:05:05] Anyway, I'm going to have to have a meeting with your wife after this. 

Brian [00:05:07] Yes, absolutely. So I'm going to start you off with this softball game. 

Charlie [00:05:13] I'm very good at softball. That's why I'm a theater night. 

Brian [00:05:17] Yeah, right. What? Roll does. Let's move on. I'm going to ask you that. Scratch that one. Okay. What or who guides your life? Is it God is a karma? Is it kismet? Is it what? What I mean, is it or is it just you? And take a second think about it because there's a wellness. 

Charlie [00:05:41] Yeah, well, this is this is a big question to start with and I love it. This is really great. I think I'll talk for a little bit and see where it leads me, but I'm going to speak truth. So I grew up Catholic. I grew up being told that there is a God who leads the way, and I don't think I've ever fully let go of that entirely, though I have kind of morphed in and out of what I specifically follow religion wise. I've I've done a lot of I don't even want to say experimenting because it really is kind of just up in my brain like, Oh, maybe it's this or maybe it's that. You know, I think ultimately the path that it's led me down to what I'm following right now, and I'm not saying this is what I follow or what it is I'm set on because I don't really think at this point there is a stable idea of what guides me so every day. Oh, without being, you know, for lack of better phrasing here, I just think I try to be the best version of myself that I could be. And I, I don't really judge myself after, you know, if it doesn't work out, I just think, okay, well, you know, that will be something I work on more. Or if something, you know, if I, if I think, okay, I could have handled that situation better, hopefully that's something that comes along later. But I don't think there's any sort of specific path I see myself on. I just think that as I'm approaching different forks in the road, I think to myself, What? What makes me what would make me feel better or what would make others feel better? You know. Yeah. I don't know how crazy I am about the idea of following one specific path, because even people who do follow one specific path, uh, you know, branch off into other paths and try to find their way back onto their path. But who's to say that the path that they were on was the wrong path or wasn't the right path to continue on to their right path? You know what I mean? Yeah. Gosh, it's so wordy. I can I can talk about this for a long time because I. I do feel lost in it, but I think that's part of it. You know, it's a journey. 

Brian [00:08:08] Well, there's lost. And it sounds to me like you're picking up the things that work for you and you're trying them out. And if they don't work, you discard them. And and if they do work, you kind of latch on to a little bit. And that started with Catholicism and it goes through whatever you read from Buddha and everything else, and you're like, Hey, that's interesting. That's interesting. That works for me. That works for me. But so there's one thing of loss, like feeling your way around and there's another loss like just wandering in the desert, not even noticing that you're on a path, not paying attention to what's work, and just nose to the grindstone. Take a step forward, whatever direction you're facing. 

Charlie [00:08:45] Yeah, but I guess what's interesting with the whole follow mentality or what is guiding you is, is there's there has to be either some something good or some repercussion or otherwise your choices don't matter anyway. So if I don't believe in let's just say, and I'm not saying this, but if I don't believe in a God, then what is the point of being a good person or what is the point of being a bad person? Because there really is no such thing if there is nothing. Either good for you at the end or bad for you at the end. So I think there there's that argument of, you know, if if you don't have something that you believe in, then what is the point of being anything, I guess. And that's why I think there must be something, because there is something that drives people to be good or drives people to be bad. 

Brian [00:09:41] Okay. So are you saying that someone that doesn't believe in an afterlife or a higher power, they can't be good? No, not at all. Okay. I didn't think so. 

Charlie [00:09:53] I kind of feel like that is what I'm what I am. I'm not sure I believe in an afterlife. I I'm not sure what the higher power is that I believe in. But there is that part of me all the time, constantly saying, what can I do to be the best version of myself? And I think I'm just wondering, because I don't know what would drive me to want to be good if there are no repercussions or there is no reward. And just on basic human instinct, why would that be a thing? 

Brian [00:10:29] So answer your question. Why? Why would the. 

Charlie [00:10:32] No. Oh, gosh, I don't know the answer to it. I if anything, I mean, I guess there is some sort of a word, you know, you get a high off of helping somebody. You get you feel good about yourself and you when you help other people. But that's so selfish. And so then this, this your whole altruistic view is just based on yourself. And then that I don't know how that makes you seem like a good person. Okay. You know what I mean? 

Brian [00:11:00] Yeah. Do you think Sister Teresa got high on helping people? 

Charlie [00:11:05] Yeah, sure. Absolutely. 

Brian [00:11:07] Had to feel all right. 

Charlie [00:11:08] But I wonder if her helping people was was that was her sense of feeling. God. 

Brian [00:11:13] Okay. 

Charlie [00:11:13] You know that. Oh, that's God. Thank you, God. But, you know, and then maybe that is mine. Maybe I just don't call it God because I don't like picturing the old man in a white robe in the sky, you know? And I'm not saying that has to be God either. I'm just saying that's that is what I grew up learning. So and that's what a lot of people think or a lot of people don't think. They just know like that's what it is because they were told that or they they just believe that and that's fine. But for me, I think. I, I can't believe that because that that doesn't do it for me. So whatever version of God that I do find, I'm not sure how to explain his plan what it is, but I do know it's there. 

Brian [00:11:54] Well, it's a reason. It's the one unanswered question that's always on everybody's mind, right? It's the one we keep coming back to. It's like, why do I get up in the morning if there isn't something there? 

Charlie [00:12:03] But gosh, isn't it nice to not have an answer to it? Like, isn't it nice to for everyone to have their own version of something? And isn't it so sad that some people can't accept that, that your version isn't the same as theirs and that leads to lots of fighting. Yeah. 

Brian [00:12:19] So can can you see a perspective where someone finds that it's nicer because they do have the answer and they have the one true religion and everybody else where we're here to help them understand that as much as possible. But it's so nice because I know. 

Charlie [00:12:38] That. 

Brian [00:12:38] There is a God. I know that you can you see where that would be an enticing way to live. 

Charlie [00:12:45] I'm super routine oriented, so I do see the the idea where if you have a strict set of guidelines following, it sounds great and easy. 

Brian [00:12:54] And if it's handed to you, here are the guidelines. You don't even have to think about it. 

Charlie [00:12:57] It sounds great. But then what else? You know, there's the quest for answers is is what human life is. You know, it's the idea of dealing with your suffering. And so if you have this idea of like, well, this is how you don't suffer, you're still going to suffer through it, like whether or not it's it's written right in front of you or not. So I do I do see that. I think in terms of explaining it to people, it's easier, but it also might be harder because you feel like you have answers. But they might you might still feel unfulfilled. Okay. Whereas the people who don't have their set of guidelines that they're following, specifically part of being fulfilled or their fulfillment is is trying to find it. On their own. 

Brian [00:13:49] So where would you rate if someone was going to have a value system? Where would you rate? And we can put a lot of things on that value system and a lot of religions try to quantify that, qualify that and say these are the things that should be on there. You've got Ten Commandments, you've got your Buddhist principles, you've got whatever. If you live like this, life will be better. You'll still suffer, and in the end, you're still going to die. And whether you move forward or not, this is the best way to live on that list of priorities. Where would you put being open minded to someone else with a different perspective? 

Charlie [00:14:30] You mean? It say? You're saying if somebody say I say I'm super Catholic and I should be open minded, but somebody who's super Buddhist. Yeah. 

Brian [00:14:42] And is that is that more important than thou shalt not kill? Or keep the Sabbath day holy or. 

Charlie [00:14:51] Is it more. 

Brian [00:14:51] Important? Yeah. If you had to rank. Where would you put being open minded? 

Charlie [00:15:00] Oh gosh, I'm not sure I'd put it above Thou shalt not kill. But that's also you know, I grew up with these commandments, so. Right. These are things that and I'm not I've never killed anybody. 

Brian [00:15:11] I hope we we go on record. Never. We. 

Charlie [00:15:14] Oh, I have never killed anybody. 

Brian [00:15:16] Let's bring on our new guest. 

Charlie [00:15:19] The person he killed straight from the afterlife. 

Brian [00:15:23] Is going to be a great podcast. 

Charlie [00:15:25] Oh, my gosh. Oh, where would it rank? That's a that's a great question. I'm not sure it's in the same category as something or should be on the same set of plates. But I do think it's. I'm always brought back and I say this all the time. I use this all the time because I'm always brought back to the West Wing, which I'm sure you love. I think we've talked about it before. I'm brought back to genius. Genius. To Toby, getting his ex-wife pregnant out of wedlock and not telling the president. And then President Bartlet finds out and calls him in and says, Why didn't you tell me? And he says, Well, you know, because I didn't and not sure what align with your Catholicism. And President Bartlet says it's my Catholicism. It doesn't have to work for anybody but me or whatever. I'm paraphrasing. Right. But if everybody could think that way, I'm not sure I need to even put that on a value system. If I did it, it would probably be pretty high because. But it shouldn't even be. I don't know. I don't know if that should be a rule as much as it. It's just nice to see. And maybe that's just me being realistic with it. Because if you make it a rule, I'm not sure how it would be followed. But I. Yeah. 

Brian [00:16:52] But, but I see a there's a group of people out there that says, look, not all of that bull crap, right? Whatever, wherever you got it, whatever plates your you were looking at or whatever. None of that matters. The only thing that matters is that you're generous and you're open to other people having a different opinion. That is my religion. 

Charlie [00:17:13] Yeah. 

Brian [00:17:14] Yeah. And yet most religions. That isn't on the list. 

Charlie [00:17:18] Right. Yeah, I think. I mean, it should be written. It should be written. I'm not sure it should be a this is this is part of the religion. But it it's I mean, but it is. And even if it's not written in that exact way, you know, throughout the Bible, this is the fight that everyone talks about all the time, is that love is the most important message. And, you know. 

Brian [00:17:40] Yeah, but really, you need to be baptized or you're going to hell. 

Charlie [00:17:43] Exactly. 

Brian [00:17:44] So immediately we start saying, yeah, but and these other things start moving up the list of priorities. Sure, we're nice to people. Sure, we reach out and help strangers, but if they're not baptized, that's it. And if they're not baptized the right way by one of us in this religion, that's it. 

Charlie [00:18:00] Yeah. And I'm not sure if that's. I'm not. I'm just not I don't quite understand why people aren't okay. You know, is it is it a jealousy thing where where they're not allowed to live their life one way, so they get jealous of other people living their life that way? Or is it a thing where they feel better than the other person and they they wish, oh, man, I would love for that person to be on my level so we could celebrate together in the afterlife. Or is it it just makes me sad that that people have to take specific things from their religion and say, you should be doing it like this and this happens all the time in politics. Why is it that everybody has to follow these exact rules if you don't want to follow like if you don't want to, let's just use abortion. If you don't want to get an abortion, don't have one. Don't have one. What is it? What if if it's if you making a law that abortion is not allowed and it's still happening. Well, then what? Why? Why? Why? Make it a law? Why bother? Just. Just follow your own rules. And if it works for you, then that's great. I don't. I just never see why it has to. Has to work. Your. Your mindset has to be everybody else's. My world. Be so boring. 

Brian [00:19:14] Because I'm right. Well, exactly. Well, you are right. Left. Whichever way you want to look at it, there is no middle right. You pick a side and stay on your side. Don't go to the middle. 

Charlie [00:19:24] But that's it's actually extra interesting with the religion because at least in politics, you've got two sides. In America, that's the two party system. And it is so much easier to sway one way or another. But with religion, how many religions are there? Oh, my gosh. Why? Why? How are we still. There's so many how are we still falling into mind? The right one. And you have to follow mine. Right. 

Brian [00:19:46] I think there's something underlying both of those. That had been bothering me lately. And it's the same with religion and politics. And it's like if I make a law or a commandment, then that unwanted behavior goes away. If I can just say, hey, there is a law against marijuana, so it will go away and it's like, really? Does it at all change anything ever? You made a law against it. We can fight over it, but people that are going to smoke pot are going to smoke pot. Yeah. You made a law against it. If they get caught, it's a lot more inconvenient. Yeah, but it's not going to stop them from doing it. 

Charlie [00:20:30] If anything, it's going to get, you know, make it less safe. 

Brian [00:20:33] Put something on a banned book list, see some number of sales. It goes up for that book on Amazon or wherever else. Right. Tell me what I can't do. Yeah, I love that two books are doing something else right. 

Charlie [00:20:43] If anything, it just makes it more appealing. Right. 

Brian [00:20:46] But there's something about that mentality of if we make it illegal or we make it a commandment, then it'll stop. It'll go away. That's how we're going to handle it. We're going to make it into a law. Your laws have essentially no effect. 

Charlie [00:20:56] So that's why that's that's why I wonder is is this person doing that so they can, at the gates of heaven say, well, look what I did, I'm so important because I made it a law. I know some people aren't going to follow it, but I did my best to make it. Everybody doing the exact same thing. Yeah. And do you get extra points for making other people convert to your religion or is it that you did your best and your afterlife is because of you and not what? How much you've influenced others and influencing others is very important. I agree, but. I, I yeah. Gosh, that's, I mean, then and then we just open another can worms and. 

Brian [00:21:36] That's what we're here for. 

Charlie [00:21:38] Yeah. Ha. Okay. What's interesting is not influencing others is not forcing others. 

Brian [00:21:46] Influence other is not forcing it. Yeah, but you get to those pearly gates and the first question isn't, well, what laws did you pass. It's yeah. How open minded weren't you to views of others. Yeah. Sure. Oh. Oh that's a lot. I didn't know that was on the I have this list and it said that thou shalt not kill and. 

Charlie [00:22:04] Yeah. Right. Knows. Who knows? Okay. 

Brian [00:22:09] You have something else that's interesting you want to talk about next, or you can go and throw something out. 

Charlie [00:22:13] Oh, my gosh. Please just keep throwing things out, because I will. I will answer them. If I think of anything, I will definitely ask. 

Brian [00:22:19] Let me talk about your inner critic. 

Charlie [00:22:22] Okay. 

Brian [00:22:23] Voice in your head. 

Charlie [00:22:25] Boy. 

Brian [00:22:26] How many times a day do you hear that voice? And what do they say? Most often that just has a tendency to just shut you down. 

Charlie [00:22:36] My inner critic is it is pretty loud. And I think that's I'm sure I'm with everybody living right now when I say that. But I do think that. It's interesting seeing the way certain people handle things that I am not able to handle the same way. Delaney, for example, she is so good at just. Throwing some things away and going, Yeah, I can do that. Where I immediately I have to. The voice in my head is screaming, You have this to do, you have this to do. You can't do that because of this. And also you're not good enough for that. And that happens constantly. And maybe I chose the wrong career because I get rejection 100 times a week, but it hurts every time and it is. I'm working really hard on quieting that voice because it will tell me that I cannot do something that I. Decide that I can't do. And then later, when I've already passed on the opportunity, I magically can do it, you know, whether it be dancing a certain way or hitting certain high notes or singing in a certain style or memorizing such amount of material and that. I. I am a rule follower too. So as strict as I can live my life, as routine oriented as I can live, my life is even better. So any time anything happens where I have to stray a little bit off of what I think I'm going to be doing. That voice is like, No, you can't do that. So it's loud. It is loud. And maybe I just need therapy or maybe I need to start ignoring that voice a little bit more. And yet we all need therapy, right? 

Brian [00:24:23] So. So what kind of things is that voice say the most? What's something that you're just like? That bothers you or maybe bothers you the most? 

Charlie [00:24:34] I mean, it's pretty common, but I do kind of always constantly think that I'm not good enough for this or that it's it's very common in my everyday life, no matter what it is. Talking to a stranger, oh, they're not gonna want to talk to you or accepting a certain audition. Oh, they're not going to want to cast you. You're not. You're not. You're not. Right. I guess would be. You're not what they want. And that happens. Yeah, all the time. It's it's so fascinating, too, because every time I work up the bravery to ignore that voice. It works it and it. I am automatically like, wow, see what happens when I ignore that voice that it's the best turnout ever. And then 10 minutes later I'll hear that voice again and I'll think, Oh, yeah, I should listen to that voice. 

Brian [00:25:29] Yeah. But after a while, you get this part, you get that part, you get callbacks here, you get this bit, you get pretty soon that voice gets quieter, right? Because like, look, I've got all this evidence that says I can do it. Look at all these things I can do. That voice get quieter. 

Charlie [00:25:44] No, it doesn't. What's up? Doesn't get quieter. There's still things that it says. So I've been in TNA for I mean, if you take away the pandemic, if you don't take away the pandemic, I've been in it for about four years. But but really, we've been running for well over a year. Yeah. And every single night before I go onstage. Oh, you're going to forget a line. 

Brian [00:26:07] Every night you're out there, you're going to botch it. 

Charlie [00:26:09] You're going to you're going to forget that line. And so every time I get offstage and I have conquered that, I'm like, and then I have to do it again. It's it's fascinating. It is so fascinating. And it's I think it's less about quieting that voice and more about. Listening elsewhere. It's and I don't even know if it's ignoring the voice. I think it's just trying to distract yourself from the voice. Okay. 

Brian [00:26:38] Expound on that. 

Charlie [00:26:40] So if there's anything I can do to either and let's just use the show as an example again, because it's always so fresh in my mind. If the voice says, Oh, you're going to forget a line tonight, the best thing I can do for myself is try to find some sort of some sort of word to play in the scene, say, you know, even just like or some sort of feeling I can play. So, okay, your character has a headache today. And the more I can focus somewhere else on something, I get through the scene. And the beauty of that is it always makes it different. So I go on stage and I'll say something a little different because my character is a little bit nauseous, or my character had one hour of sleep last night. And as long as it's not something that's going to mess with the dialog like you want to be, like my character is going to throw. 

Brian [00:27:30] Up like drunk. 

Charlie [00:27:32] You know, my character's drunk. I don't maybe don't do that. You could say my character had a drink. Sure. Fun. That's great. But, you know, as long as it doesn't mess with the material or just gives you something fun to do, then that's. That's great. And also, it makes you forget about not only just that voice, but all the other voices of the, you know, 1200 people that are out there watching you. Yeah. And that is something that. I have tried to apply to my life. I'm not like going out in the world, being like, I have a headache today, but I'll go out and like, if something is bothering me, I'll just try to think of something else while I tackle that problem, you know, or I'll try to find it a good view on that problem. 

Brian [00:28:18] Okay. So I had a question and I just lost it now. 

Charlie [00:28:21] Dan Okay. Um. 

Brian [00:28:24] Yeah. So the things your critics says. Is there any truth to that? Is there any data to even support what that critic is saying is accurate? 

Charlie [00:28:35] Of course, there's always there's always things that. But the more you believe it, the more accurate it is. So when they're when they say you can't hit that note, the more I believe that, the more when I try to sing that song, I sure as heck can't hit that note. But when I fully ignore it, when I'm doing other things, try to distract myself, try to focus on the story of the song or whatever it is. Then I'll halfway through the note be like, Wow, I'm hitting this right now. Or you know, because then and sometimes it still doesn't come out and you think, Wow, you know, maybe I can't. But then what does that mean? Oh, you can't. Or you just need to practice more or take a couple more voice lessons. Okay. I think that. There is some truth to the voice or else you wouldn't you wouldn't hear it. But I do think that it's nothing that you you can't work around and eventually quiet down or it just, you know, just yeah. Having it get smaller and smaller because your, your. You are making your. The contrasting voice bigger and bigger. 

Brian [00:29:45] Do you believe in? There's a there's saying, sorry, I've got to. 1/2. Sorry, I'm enough to edit this part out. 

Charlie [00:30:10] Okay. I have to do a call at three. Is that doable? 

Brian [00:30:13] What? That's in 40 minutes. 

Charlie [00:30:15] It's in 40 minutes. 

Brian [00:30:16] Okay. Yes, let's do that. 

Charlie [00:30:20] And I can jump off at 50 or 55. 

Brian [00:30:23] Okay. Yeah, let's do that. 

Charlie [00:30:25] Great. 

Brian [00:30:27] I'm going to lose this connection here in 8 minutes until I unless I update. So I'm going to. I've got to update my. 

Charlie [00:30:33] Oh, okay. Okay. 

Brian [00:30:54] Okay. I think I'm done. All right. Sorry. Totally disregard it. 

Charlie [00:30:58] All good. 

Brian [00:31:02] Okay. One question I have to ask you. 

Charlie [00:31:04] Go for it. 

Brian [00:31:05] I've got a one word joke, and I need you to tell me why it's so funny. 

Charlie [00:31:10] Okay. 

Brian [00:31:11] Okay. I never realized. But that's what this is. This is a one word joke. 

Charlie [00:31:16] Okay. Hello? Why is that funny? Oh, boy. Yeah. You know what? That is a great question. That is a great question. Well in the context. Of this show, the way it opens. And we're talking about the Book of Mormon here. Yeah. Is. We. We open on the on a pageant of the retelling of Joseph Smith. Finding the plates or actually of Moroni burying the plates. Is that right? Am I right there? Yeah. And. 

Brian [00:31:59] I know that he's seen I don't know if that was the opening scene, but it is. 

Charlie [00:32:03] It is. And and this this big, deep voice. It's actually it's Trey Parker from South Park saying this, telling the story of the beginning of of of the Mormon faith and how it how it's happening. And it's it's talking about how it's you know, it's the greatest, grandest thing. And it's it you know, it took over the world and it cuts directly from that to the darkest looking dude you've ever seen ringing the doorbell. And so it's just the contrast of it of of explaining how important and large and amazing this is to the tiniest little lanky white guy ringing adorable with the biggest smile on his face. And I guess it's funny because you think. You know it. In their own way. They're some sort of warrior. You know, they they go around and spread their message and try to help people and. You can. It's about killing with kindness, I think is exactly like. Wait. What? What? That. You know, you can get as I'm sure like Mormons get smack to the objection as much as actors, you know, they ring doorbells all day and try to convert and ad I'm sure it goes right about as much as it goes right me you know with me booking voiceover jobs. And. So why is it funny? It's funny because people like. People like laughing at dorks. 

Brian [00:33:53] People should have a nice, long, healthy career then. 

Charlie [00:33:58] From your mouth. Yeah. You know, it's I don't know why it's funny. I mean, I don't know why, you know, it it's it's relatable. I mean, relatable even. 

Brian [00:34:13] Even to members that aren't familiar with the church. They know who the missionaries are. Most of them do. Right. And most of them are bad that that doorbell, you know, or at least heard the joke about it or whatever, you know. 

Charlie [00:34:25] Yeah. And you know, there's the whole stereotype of Mormons being the nicest people ever. And I have not ever found that to be false or exaggerated yet. Prove you wrong. So. So. Yeah, it is like. Yeah, it's exactly what you expect. And like you said, it's relatable and and comedy. A lot of times it's funny because it's exactly what you expect and that you think it's funny because you understand it 100% okay. And you laugh to show other people you're like, I know this is funny, right? 

Brian [00:35:02] I get this. I get this. 

Charlie [00:35:03] Joke. Yeah. Um. 

Brian [00:35:07] So that same that same sex scenario, that same word, even there is a mormon in the audience that is offended. By that word. We're not even getting to the part later about maggots and everything else. Let's just talk about just that part. How is that so triggering? First of all, why are they in the audience? That's a good question. Said that is not. But why is that so triggering to them, do you think? 

Charlie [00:35:36] Well, I'm sure there's a. There's part of them that that's always been. Just triggered because I'm sure they've been bullied about their religion before. And I'm not saying that's what Book of Mormon does. I'm not saying it's right. 

Brian [00:35:51] I mean. 

Charlie [00:35:52] Yeah, a bully about anything, you know? Yeah. And that is it's always going to be triggering for somebody because they have faced a lot of negative feedback about it. And so. I do think that Matt and Trey, the writers did a beautiful job at. At. Giving you, showing you why it's funny but not offensive. And there are parts of the show that I think. Play on the line of being offensive, but I don't think. They're offending. More men's. As much as they are anybody who believes. In any religion. I think that they. But I guess the way that they get away with it is that there's truth to all sides of it. There are people saying these things. And the point of the Mormons in the show. Is to change their view. On those things. So. Yes. The Mormons are a very exaggerated version of the dorky people you've ever met in your life. But their mission is the same as those who are actually out there trying to convert people. They're there. They are trying to help people. 

Brian [00:37:22] And more. They're convinced that they are. 

Charlie [00:37:24] Or they're convinced that they are. And obviously that goes I don't want to spoil anything too much for those who haven't seen the show, but if they. 

Brian [00:37:30] Haven't seen the show now, come on, I'm going to tell you who won the World Series five years ago. If you still have it on tape and haven't seen it, then. 

Charlie [00:37:37] The lead character in the end of the show comes to find out, you know? It's it's less about helping people through with Mormonism and more about helping people believe in something. Have anything that they believe in to make them feel good so that they're not just blaming the world for their problems there. They feel like they have some sort of journey to go on to fix them. And that is I think it's is it's actually so beautiful the way that they've written in Mormon because, you know, you expect them at the end of the show to to do what they set out to do. And it completely shifts. And yet somehow they have done what they set out to do, just not in the way they thought they were going to do it. Yeah. 

Brian [00:38:29] The writers have done a great job. 

Charlie [00:38:31] They definitely I mean, they're very experienced at being good writers. 

Brian [00:38:35] And I think the people in the audience that are laughing and the people that are triggered are more it's because of who they are, not about the material. If you you can interpret any joke to being. Well, that's not true. Some jokes are meant to be offensive and they're designed to be offensive. 

Charlie [00:38:57] But I would argue that if more men were written to be offensive, it wouldn't be funny. 

Brian [00:39:02] It could be. Yeah. 

Charlie [00:39:04] It probably. 

Brian [00:39:05] I don't know. Sometimes I think it's like I do see a lot of their their their writings and everything in their, in their other shows. It's this group of the kids on the playground laughing at that group of kids on the playground. Yeah. And I think it does cross the line to get offensive at some point. But that's okay. You are fully free to get up and leave. You are fully free to go tell on the teacher. You can even write a bad review and give us your input. 

Charlie [00:39:27] Yeah. Yeah. 

Brian [00:39:29] My job as a comedian and my as a comedian, we not only get up to that line if we're not crossing that line several times, we're probably not trying enough. We're leaving. We're leaving material on the table and. 

Charlie [00:39:41] Yeah. 

Brian [00:39:41] It's a joke. Yeah, I mean, a lot. And there's a lot of political correctness and there's a there's a there's a reason for all of that. But people can take it too seriously, just like people can take it. They're not serious enough. 

Charlie [00:39:56] Yeah. I also if you look at it from an acting standpoint, no matter what you're playing in the show, you want to find that character's truth. So if the unless there are specific action they're playing is to offend that person. The offensive, quote unquote joke that they are playing has to come from a truthful place in their character's heart. So that's why I feel like if Mormon were written offensive, I'm not sure how it would even. How it would even be played out in these characters. It would have to be that either Ugandans in the show are specifically hating the Mormons, but the Ugandans in the show. I don't even believe they know about Mormonism at all. So I. 

Brian [00:40:45] Don't know from what they're being taught from us. 

Charlie [00:40:47] Or familiale they're kind of. But it's so then that's why I feel like if it's offensive, then it's. It's not from a deep rooted place of I hate you. It's, it's from a because of what you believe. It's a, you know, just. It's just unfortunate. 

Brian [00:41:04] Okay, but I'm going to force my way into your home, in front of your family. And you're a nice guy. You're letting us in. It's raining outside. You feel bad for us. Come on and let's sit and talk. And I'm telling you that you're not good enough, that you're going to go to hell, that God has a plan for you. You need to believe. You need to be baptized. You need to tell me that's not offensive. I'm coming from a good place. 

Charlie [00:41:30] Yeah. So I guess my way of responding that would be well, that. If that's what you believe, then I'm glad that you are living that life. Okay. And if that's what I eventually come to believe. Thank you for sharing it with me. But as of right now, I. I do not believe the end result of what you are doing. Is what my journey is is leading to. And that all goes back to that West Wing quote It should be okay to live your own life in your own religion and not have to worry about other people doing it. So. 

Brian [00:42:12] See, that's now the first commandment is be open minded. 

Charlie [00:42:17] I guess it is right. 

Brian [00:42:20] If you can find out something that's interesting, that's an interesting perspective. Why do you believe that? How would conversation then have it feel like they're here to offend me? They're sharing their beliefs. And I can listen to their beliefs and I can tell my beliefs and they can either choose to be angry or not and leave. 

Charlie [00:42:37] Yeah. 

Brian [00:42:37] Well, and I think a small percentage of the planet actually operates at that level. 

Charlie [00:42:42] I agree. And I it must come from a place of of fear, at least politically, you think? You know, I just as an example, a lot of very far right people will say that they believe in the freedom of religion. Yet if they they also I feel like I have this deep fear that if other religions become popular, Christianity will eventually not be allowed. So. That. And there are people, I think, like that I know personally that would feel that way. So. That's when I'm I'm saying, okay, so you don't believe in freedom of religion. You believe in freedom of your religion. And that's not how it works. But assuming that we all believe in freedom of religion. We. We have nothing to worry about. Yeah. 

Brian [00:43:44] Yeah, but. But you need to fight for everyone's religion, not just yours. 

Charlie [00:43:54] I think if everybody is. Well, what's fighting for your religion, though? Because if you are living your religion. The way you want to. And everybody is that way. Then what is fighting for your religion? 

Brian [00:44:12] Well, if you truly believe that people who are not baptized in your church will suffer eternal consequences. It's your duty to help them and stop at nothing to get them there. 

Charlie [00:44:25] Yeah. 

Brian [00:44:26] Are you really. If you really believe that and you are just allowing them to just go off and live their lives willy nilly and have their own opinions and make their own decisions. Are you really showing concern for that person? 

Charlie [00:44:43] There is a line, I think, where you can. Express the way you feel. Unfortunately, I think if if people express it either even one time too many e the other person isn't going to want anything to do with that person anyway because they feel like whatever they do isn't going to be good enough. Right. Unless they just convert to their religion. But then you want that person to actually believe in these things right now. 

Brian [00:45:10] They just need to be baptized. 

Charlie [00:45:12] Right. So check the box. Well, then in that case, you might as well as baptize everybody. 

Brian [00:45:16] And that's what I said. Do get all the names. Yeah. Yeah. 

Charlie [00:45:20] And then you don't have to follow anything else. If from any church, you can do your own thing and you'll still end up at the pearly gates because you were baptized. 

Brian [00:45:28] Yeah. If there if any. If it's there. So let me ask you to put this different way. I don't know if I'm going to get a different response, but I just wrote this question and I just thought, I just need to see the reaction on your face when I say it. 

Charlie [00:45:40] Okay. 

Brian [00:45:41] What's it like? How many people are in your audience? 

Charlie [00:45:43] How many? Tina It's it's like I think it's about 13 or 1400. 

Brian [00:45:51] Okay. So what's it like every night? Twice on Saturday, standing in in front of 13 or 1400 people, making light of something that 16 million people hold very sacred. 

Charlie [00:46:06] It's a lot of fun. 

Brian [00:46:12] You're that bully on the other side of the playground now. Tell him. Well, it. 

Charlie [00:46:15] Is funny, though, because it you. You you assume that? Well, in Book of Mormon, it's a it's about 1100 seats. So it's 1100 people. So it's not as bad then. It's it's not as bad. You you automatically assume that most of your audience is not Mormon, or at least not practicing. But if we are really I guess making light is a really good way of putting it. But why is that such a bad thing? Like, do you want to see something that will make you laugh that you can relate to? I didn't know before I did the Book of Mormon that Mormons couldn't drink coffee. I didn't know that was a thing. And so during part of the show, Elder Price, the lead of the show, he is having a bad dream and he's in hell. And there are giant coffee cups running around him. And I think if I were a practicing Mormon, even that would be hilarious. 

Brian [00:47:07] Funny, right? That's funny, people. 

Charlie [00:47:09] Because you also are thinking, oh, I get this joke that not everybody gets. Yeah. And maybe it is well, well known enough. Maybe I'm I just was far behind that. But there are a lot of references in the show that I think Mormons will actually find funnier than anybody else. Okay. You know, a lot of Mormons that have seen the show and they, I think all enjoyed it. There are, you know, a few parts of the show that are uncomfortable. But I would argue that those, like I said, aren't about aren't making fun of Mormons. It's it's it's the wording that they use to to contrast the Mormon. 

Brian [00:47:44] Right, right, right, right. 

Charlie [00:47:46] What else was I going to say? I was going to say something else about that. And I don't remember what it is, but. Yeah. It's fun. You think of immigrants, though. The the Mormon Church has an ad in the Book of Mormon playbill. 

Brian [00:48:08] Right. So they got a lot of egg on their face, so they got to make good with it, right? Yeah, that's what it is. With something. Spin it. Spin it. 

Charlie [00:48:16] Yeah, that's. But it's also the idea that I think that there is a lot of truth in the show to what? What Mormons are doing. Because these characters, they are Mormons trying to convert people. And and they do. You don't say a lot of things that do come directly from the church. And so if somebody is really interested in it. Then, you know, as much as people are laughing at the show, I don't feel like they're laughing at Mormons. It's they're laughing at the they just the whole idea and the stereotype of it all. And at some. 

Brian [00:48:51] Point, if you if if this offends you and this you don't find this funny, maybe you shouldn't go to a musical. 

Charlie [00:48:57] You know. 

Brian [00:48:57] A comedy. Maybe, maybe, maybe if you know, or a musical about this, where you knew what it was coming in. I mean, come on. 

Charlie [00:49:04] But also, I'm sure you encounter people when you're on your mission that throw things in your face that are and I mean, verbally, not physically, but I hope sometimes. Well, but verbally that that are much more offensive than you'll hear in the Book of Mormon on Broadway. And does that change you? Then why would it be any different than seeing what you're doing? And maybe that's why it's just triggering. 

Brian [00:49:31] Well, yeah, I think it goes a little bit beyond that because that's one person's opinion. And you are broadcasting this out as a show as entertainment. Yeah, right. You're not just meeting me at my doorstep and telling me, oh, I hate Mormons. Get off my porch. Right. I shot the last set of missionaries that we're here. Do you want to come in? You know. 

Charlie [00:49:49] Um, but there's nothing in the show that specifically will. Will say to any Mormon, you shouldn't be Mormon. It's wrong. Right at all. 

Brian [00:49:58] Tell me. There aren't parts of China that are triggering to people that have had a oh. 

Charlie [00:50:04] My gosh. 

Brian [00:50:05] Portion of her background happen in their lives. Right. 

Charlie [00:50:08] I would argue much more triggering. 

Brian [00:50:10] Yeah. And do you pull punches there because it might offend somebody? That's part of the story. Right. And it's not only part of the world coming in. You knew Tina story. I can't imagine what it was like for her to sit in that audience and watch it and reflect part of her lives and thinking, Yeah, they're not even really close to where that was. 

Charlie [00:50:30] Well, I can tell you. Yeah, actually, she she saw the opening night and she wanted nothing to do with the musical. She doesn't like having to relive those moments like, you know, who would extremely pain. 

Brian [00:50:41] Let's come sit with 1600 people and relive the worst parts of your life, you know? 

Charlie [00:50:46] Yeah. Or let's watch Ike say a hilarious line that everyone loves. You know, as much as everyone hates Ike. Yeah. It. She said she's she spoke at the at the curtain call of the opening night and she said watching that show was like turning poison into medicine. And I think that's a really good way of looking at any triggering part of the show, because it's something that you get to experience and feel for this character, but you don't have to live yourself. And I think that's why theater is important as a whole, because you can you can sit and watch these people's stories play out in a sad or as happy as they are. You learn from them and you can reflect them in your own life. And that is it's imperative to why and that's why, you know, people fight for the arts. Is it you are watching as ridiculous as some stories are as as as hard as some stories are to watch it, they're all important to watch just so that you can do some reflection, some self-reflection. 

Brian [00:51:46] Yeah. And you're inviting them in to share as part of the human experience? 

Charlie [00:51:50] Yeah. 

Brian [00:51:51] As set in Uganda or as set in wherever. 

Charlie [00:51:56] Mm hmm. So. Exactly right. 

Brian [00:51:58] That's a great way to do that. What have been if you can think of any off the top of your head, what have been the most memorable reactions to your show personally, to you personally of people that were active Mormons, non non people that were never Mormons and people that were former Mormons, if you can kind of got roving categories out or whatever. What's been some of the most memorable experiences you've had? Good and bad, maybe? 

Charlie [00:52:24] Yeah. Well, I'd have to start by saying that the the night that I first talked to Delaney, my fiancee, she was sitting in the front row, and I had heard that she was, if not a practicing Mormon, she had grown up on it. So it was you know, I was happy to watch her because I had a big old crush on her. And so that entire time, watching her laugh at these jokes was like, wow, I'm glad that somebody like it who is has grown up with this can can take it well. Right. That's the first thing that comes to mind, of course. The second my grandparents are are devout Catholics. And there is a lot of just bad talk. There's a song called Hasta Diga Eebowai that translates directly to F-you God. And if there was one part of the show my grandparents didn't like, they said it was that, but. Huh. You know who in this story this is happening because it is unbelievably tragic the way that that that people have had to live their lives with nothing to believe in over there, nothing to make it seem better. And so you you don't have anybody. And this is just a take on it. Unless you have somebody to come and teach you about God or teach you about religion and why it's helpful, then of course, you're just going to look at it negatively if you. If you have that sort of experience. So that's that. I don't know if there are occasionally you do see people get up and walk out during that song. And I don't know if they're Mormon. I don't know if they're just religious. I don't know if they watched the show thinking it was something entirely different. And that's always like, Oh, man, I think you're about to miss why the show actually is not about that, but about fixing that. 

Brian [00:54:21] Right. Right. 

Charlie [00:54:23] So that's unfortunate. But that happens. That happens often enough. Yeah, I bet. And it's not like half the audience gets up and leaves and all. It's the Book of Mormon. It's always sold out. But pieces, pieces. You know, we get up and leave. Every now and then it'll be like, Oh, they didn't know about the chassis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I don't know if I had any. Extremely difficult. Like there weren't ever any people, like, chanting that we're going to hell from the audience. Okay, that I remember. Or while I was there, it might have happened. Okay. And I don't think there's been much backlash even outside the theater from protesters or anything of this sort. So that's that's kind of how, you know, that either they have so much money that they can get rid of that when it pops up, which, you know, they do have that much money. But I really think that it's just that people understand that the show really isn't just making fun of people. Okay. I got. 

Brian [00:55:23] I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

Charlie [00:55:25] No, go for it. 

Brian [00:55:26] I just got a couple of questions. I know you got to leave your ask them. I'll have you read the Book of Mormon. 

Charlie [00:55:33] I've read as much of the Book of Mormon as I could read walking on stage every night with it. Okay. Different page every night. Flip to different pages. Sometimes I try to find certain pages. There's the what is it, the book of Ennis. Yeah, yeah. So I always thought that was funny. So I try to find that before going on because it sounds like it's but if I couldn't, you know, I just sit and read and there are parts of the book that are read during the show. So I've heard pieces, but I have not read much of it. I'm not that method of an actor. 

Brian [00:56:05] Okay, so. So would you like me to set up an appointment? You can meet with the missionaries. 

Charlie [00:56:10] That'd be great. I appreciate it. I guess I really can't talk until I read it, huh? 

Brian [00:56:16] No, you could talk. 

Charlie [00:56:18] Yeah, yeah. 

Brian [00:56:19] Absolutely. You've got. You've got your opinion. I've got some more questions, but. Tell me what we missed about Charlie. What do we need in order to know you? What? What do we. What do we need to know about me? Yeah. Oh, let me ask one question while you're thinking of that. Yeah. So you're about to marry. Planning a wedding with someone who was sitting in the front row. 

Charlie [00:56:43] Who. 

Brian [00:56:43] Was a practicing Mormon at some point of her life. 

Charlie [00:56:47] Mm hmm. 

Brian [00:56:48] Concerns of marrying into a mormon family. 

Charlie [00:56:51] Absolutely zero zero. I have no concerns. I think that she and I are both extremely lucky that that her family is. They are accepting and open and the nicest people ever. Good sense for a great family. Yeah. So, no, I don't have any concerns. You know, there are parts of me that maybe feel like I am not what they pictured. Exactly. Excuse me, but I think and Delaney jokes about this all the time, you know, saying that her dad really wanted to marry a, you know, a sweet little Mormon boy. And, you know, this is about as close as you could possibly get with not being a sweet little Mormon boy. I don't have many concerns. There are things that I actually I enjoy. It's I like it a lot because I like having these deep conversations and knowing that. We both. We both. We all, like me and her entire family, can have conversations about these kinds of things and know that we might not agree at the end on everything is nice. I think that's why. Why would you want have a why would you start a conversation if you know you're both agreeing on the exact same thing? 

Brian [00:58:12] Yeah, that's true. If you can get to that point. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people, even with their own families, the once they have said this isn't for me. 

Charlie [00:58:21] You know. 

Brian [00:58:22] It's like, well, then you have no part here. I and I. That's a different conversation altogether with different people. But I. I think that's a rarity. But I've seen it happen too often to make me feel very comfortable with it. And it's puts me at ease when someone. 

Charlie [00:58:38] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I. That's why I think I feel lucky that that they are very accepting of, of the, you know, what their daughter is going through because she's you know, she's. To speak for her not against the church. Just against certain things that the church does or beliefs. So I think that it's nice. It's nice to. Yeah. To be that open minded. 

Brian [00:59:09] Okay. Last question. What? What are we missing about Charlie? I haven't heard you swear ever. Is that something that's not part of Charlie? 

Charlie [00:59:16] I say, heck, no, I swear. Whoa. 

Brian [00:59:18] Easy. Yeah. Well, sorry, you guys stupid. 

Charlie [00:59:20] Out that out. Yeah, I post. I, I. Yeah, I do. I do. Swear. Okay, I. I'm not in. 

Brian [00:59:28] A bar fight. 

Charlie [00:59:28] Like it's warranted. I've not been in a bar fighting it. I was close. One night, I almost got punched in the face, but I got my my glasses knocked off. And I don't like fighting. I'm a I'm definitely a pacifist, but I. Gosh, I am so boring, I. Something's that about me. Gosh, I like long walks on the beach. I love film scores. I like writing music. I. I like video games and board games. I don't play a lot of video games. When I say video games, I mean like Nintendo and Donkey Kong and stuff. 

Brian [01:00:02] I a real board game, so, like, not monopoly. 

Charlie [01:00:06] Yeah. No. You know, why not? Yeah. Yeah. My favorite animals and elephant. My favorite color is blue. Gosh. 

Brian [01:00:14] This is where I didn't want the conversation to go. I want you to know. Well, I'm deathly afraid that whatever or. 

Charlie [01:00:19] Yeah, I'm planning. 

Brian [01:00:20] A wedding and it's just scaring the crap out of me or I. It is actually. I'm so checked out I don't just like are you told you use magic eight ball for your. 

Charlie [01:00:31] I'm not scared about the person I'm marrying. That's I think that that is the that is the thing that's making me so happy. And this experience of planning a wedding is that no matter what happens, I get to marry Delaney at the end of it. But I. I. I am not good at planning things like this. If I had the amount of money I can just give to somebody and say, please plan this for me, thank you for your choice and your. Yeah, definitely. You're not living in a New York City apartment is taking away my entire paycheck. No, but I think that we're doing well. And Delaney is very good at planning. So it's it's very helpful. But I it's it's a lot of stress. I don't like having things on my plate. I like getting things done with. So a thing like a wedding that takes so many months to plan and it's so many pieces to put together, which I actually like puzzles, but I like to do them all in one sitting. So it's hard knowing that I have this 50,000 piece puzzle that I can only do bits of a day, you know? So yeah, that's, that's where my entire life is right now. That and Tina and that's pretty much it. Okay. 

Brian [01:01:33] Thank you so much. I've loved. I've enjoyed. I really like this. I would like to get back to some of these other things to talk about. Yes, please. It maybe it's time to figure. 

Charlie [01:01:41] Out. 

Brian [01:01:42] What I'm actually doing here. And I don't look like such a complete rookie, but. 

Charlie [01:01:47] Know this is this been great? Okay. I like talking about this stuff because like I said earlier, I don't have any answers to it, so it's nice to just talk to you. 

Brian [01:01:54] All right. So here's the deal. Two things. One, you have to pick someone now that I interviewed next. 

Charlie [01:02:01] Yeah. 

Brian [01:02:01] Good interview. 

Charlie [01:02:02] Spin thinking, but I'm going to have to think a little bit more. Okay. 

Brian [01:02:05] And two, I think next time we do this, you interview me. Okay. You come up with the questions. 

Charlie [01:02:11] Oh, boy. Okay, I'm excited. 

Brian [01:02:12] What kind of what kind of do that? Because I do want it to be a conversation, and that's a good way to do that. 

Charlie [01:02:17] So I do think we had a nice conversation, but I do think that I would like more of your answers on some of the questions that I answered. 

Brian [01:02:23] So, yeah, let let's recap. 

Charlie [01:02:25] Sweet. Thanks, Brian. 

Brian [01:02:27] Good seeing you. Yeah, good seeing you again. The lady I tell her there's nothing personal that I didn't invite her to do this will get there some point because I would love to do that, too. 

Charlie [01:02:35] But I'm sure she. Yeah, great. All right. Thanks, actually. But.