DeLaney - Happiness, Love, and Orthodox Mormonism

DeLaney is a native Utahn who has spent the past eight years acting in NYC. (Check out the show notes for a summary of her accolades.) Our conversation covers topics from the personal to the philosophical to the mundane of composting in Manhatten. Each topic uncovers another wonderful, emotional, personal layer of our amazing guest.

Topics include: Orthodox Mormonism, composting in Manhattan, board games, babysitting, the importance of supportive parents, and The Marvelous Mrs. Masel.

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Transcript

SYK Episode 108-DeLaney Final.mp3

LEAD IN

Brian [00:00:04] And I'm trying to be fair to members of the church still that are that are still active and still believing that's how they feel. And they're losing that person because of one choice, because you've chosen to not go to church or not to pay tithing or to drink coffee. That one little decision is going to cost us everything. 

DeLaney [00:00:27] And I take a sip of my coffee. Yes. 

Brian [00:00:30] And that's what they've been taught to believe. And that's actually what they do believe. And there's an eternal family in the celestial kingdom. And your chair will be empty. That is very, very sad for them. 

DeLaney [00:00:43] Yeah. 

Brian [00:00:44] And they're not doing it out of spite. It's. I'm working so hard to be worthy of this celestial kingdom. Yeah. And you're making these simple little decisions where you choose not to be there with me. 

DeLaney [00:01:00] Right. I. So my first questioning was Amanda and not being with her for eternity. My second questioning or just realizing that. I was being so blissfully ignorant and it was a lot. It was being in the city, it was attending church. And then having done these contracts where I made friends with all these people and like a large amount of them were gay men. And I started thinking, you know, what are they thinking about me stepping into this this church every Sunday? Well, because they know I mean, we've all seen the Book of Mormon. Like, we know what that means. And so it came to the point where I didn't want anyone to see me walking up 66th Street or whatever and stepping into that that church, because what does that mean? I feel about them because I'm supporting this church that doesn't support them. I feel very, very heated and passionate about this because I still. 

INTRODUCTION

Brian [00:02:05] How much of our upbringing stays with us through adulthood and makes us who we are, how much of who we are is our own personal choice. Today's conversation with Delaney covers a little of each and also touches on the process of making our own decisions. A talented Broadway actor. Delaney talks of the importance of supportive parents, as well as finding or creating the space to be her own person. We consider soulful oppression and what one does when beliefs and values conflict. Delaney is warm, relaxing, insightful and funny. We cover a broad range of topics from composting in Manhattan to Orthodox to Mormonism, happiness, love, her upcoming wedding to one of my previous guests and of course, board games. I really enjoyed this conversation with Delaney, and I know you will, too. 

CONVERSATION

Brian [00:02:55] We ready? Mm hmm. Let the make the magic happen. Oh, gosh. Don't put the pressure on me. You can't be nervous. 

DeLaney [00:03:04] I'm a little nervous. 

Brian [00:03:08] Are you nervous? 

DeLaney [00:03:09] I don't know. 

Brian [00:03:11] I mean, I. 

DeLaney [00:03:11] Have these conversations all the time. I mean, just about like I look because I love getting into, like, the nitty gritty and making making uncomfortable conversations happen. Not that it's going to be uncomfortable. I just like because I also am very passionate about how I feel about things. Maybe that's why I became an actor, but I don't know. It is. I do feel like I'm in a safe space because you do feel like family. So it feels like. Hopefully this will just be a very easy. Conversation. 

Brian [00:03:45] Okay. Well, where do you want to start? 

DeLaney [00:03:49] Please. You have to guide. You have to lead and guide. 

Brian [00:03:52] So give us just a quick introduction about who you are, not a biography or anything, but just tell me what's going on in your world, in your head, your concerns, your biggest problems right now. I know you're planning a wedding. It's kind of a big deal for some people. You know that kind of a big deal. Mm hmm. 

DeLaney [00:04:15] Well, yeah. I'm an actor in New York trying to make it work, and it's been tough. I mean, the pandemic is one thing, but then coming back, it's just been really difficult. The business is going through this, like, amazing kind of renaissance resurgence. And it's kind of required me to reevaluate, like, who I am and what I need to be fulfilled and. And what makes me happy. And is it is it only starring in a Broadway show or is it also other things? So that's been a very recent thing that's been on my mind or kind of, you know, filled my entire life. Good. I don't know. I other than that, it's like. You know, there's always religious things. There's always, you know, this under the banner of heaven thing that's been very interesting. I haven't watched it all. I watched like an episode and a half. Charlie wants to watch with me, so I had to stop and wait for him. I don't know. There's always something there's always something that's like screaming at me from the Mormonism side of things. And the wedding is a lot. The wedding is very it's we've passed the point of no return where now it's stressful and now it's like we have to get our little rears in gear and figure out how to make it work because we have three months, which is hilarious because if you live in Utah three months, it's like forever. 

Brian [00:05:46] You may not have even met your spouse yet. 

DeLaney [00:05:48] Exactly. But yeah, that's that's where I'm at. 

Brian [00:05:53] Okay. All right, so let's. Let's pick one of those. Which way? I don't care. Whatever you want to talk about. This all sounds very interesting. Um. 

DeLaney [00:06:04] I don't know. It's the. The business thing. I mean, like the New York theater scene. But it also, a lot of it has to due to the pandemic. You know, people were out of work for a long time, so they came back to these shows and they don't want to leave. They need this paycheck. They need this stability. So whereas before the pandemic, people maybe, you know, were cycle through shows a little more so then people were replacing more or whatever it might have been, that's not happening as much anymore. 

Brian [00:06:35] So. 

DeLaney [00:06:36] So it's. 

Brian [00:06:37] Been. 

DeLaney [00:06:39] It's been a time. It's been a moment. And I. Don't want to do anything else, so I got to figure out how to stick it out. 

Brian [00:06:49] Okay, so. So walk me through that process. I mean, you said you were considering. Is this really what I want to do as this? And it sounds like you decided that. Yes. This is really what I want to do. This is who I am. This is. 

DeLaney [00:07:03] Yeah. It's it's a very weird business that Charlie and I are in because we probably won't do this forever. And I guess a lot of people can relate to that. You know, you you interview for higher positions or you get promoted or you move companies or whatever. But our business is so unpredictable. And, you know, his show is closing in August. And we don't know what that means because, you know, we can always do these odd jobs. I babysit a lot. I do hair and makeup on the side, but. There will come a point in our lives where we will move from the city because we both don't love living in the city. We don't want to do musical theater for the rest of our lives. So we are going to be making some sort of huge life change at some point in our lives. We don't necessarily want to raise kids in the city. It is it is just. It's unsettling, but I suppose I knew what I was doing going into this and I knew this would happen. So it's not an unfamiliar feeling and it's not an unexpected feeling, but it is a little stressful all the same. And I think a lot of people can't quite understand why anyone would choose this. 

Brian [00:08:24] Well, there's this great line in in marvelous Mrs. Maisel where she's talking to Lenny Bruce. 

DeLaney [00:08:31] Lenny, Lenny. 

Brian [00:08:32] And he said, she says, Do you love it? He said, If I could do anything, anything else, I would do anything else. 

DeLaney [00:08:39] Oh, my gosh. I just. That resonated so much with me. 

Brian [00:08:43] Yeah, this this this is. This is all I can do this. And this is the only way I know how to do it. 

DeLaney [00:08:48] So, yes, and it's quite literally a skillset thing. Like, I can't I can't do any anything. 

Brian [00:08:57] So it doesn't translate into. Oh. 

DeLaney [00:09:01] No, I like I've talked to a few friends recently, just, you know, out of necessity because I also I babysit a lot right now and I'm a little bit getting to the point where like, if I want to have children, I have to stop. But they're not lovely children. I love them all dearly. But when they're not yours, it's just a little different. And if you've ever babysat, you just fully understand. But so I've been talking to some friends about like different temping jobs or different, you know, moving into the, to the like desk job world because a lot of people do that. A lot of my friends have done that. And I. 

Brian [00:09:36] Just. 

DeLaney [00:09:37] Can't imagine I can't imagine doing it sitting at a desk. But then some people are like, it is absolutely the most wonderful thing to have the structure, to have the monotony of, just like getting tasks completed. And I don't know, maybe I would like it, but I don't know that I am curious enough to find out. 

Brian [00:09:56] Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that you knew what you were getting into and I kind of question that. Did you did you really tell me about the whole process of moving from Utah, going to the big city and deciding, this is my thing and putting your hat on it? And how much of this did you really see at the time? Did you hear this story? Sure. It's hard and there's no place harder than New York. And how much of that did you really know? And to walk me through that process. I haven't heard that story of how you got from one to the other and. Yeah. 

DeLaney [00:10:33] I think there's an added pressure that comes from. A the Utah Mormon culture. And I felt that a lot. You feel that a lot as a musical theater major at BYU. It's kind of like, Oh, you're not getting married. Oh, will you? Like, that's the stability. That's where you find your stability in life. And if you're just going to New York, I mean, that is that is so crazy. Like, how will you make it work? And so a while, I do think that exists in other musical theater programs around the country. There is there is this added element of like, are you sure that I felt from BYU, a lot of majors do not move to New York. They do. They never even have the the goal of that when they begin the program, because they they just know what's expected of them. They know that especially the girls. It's I mean, maybe even more the guys. I don't know. That's a whole other conversation to be had. But I. I always knew that I needed to be in New York, that if I wanted to do musical theater, which is what I was good at, I you know, I started at a very young age from the age of like eight. I did my first musical, and I from that time I think I did at least one musical every year. Gosh, until the pandemic, maybe. Anyway, so. My parents were always very supportive. The pressure really never came from my parents. It was mostly, you know, friends at BYU or. Or even professors or. Just like family, extended family. Just every time I talk to them and I said, you know how I'm going to move to New York and I'm going to try to make this work. And I go, Oh, are you sure? Are you sure you want you sure you want to do that? But I. I just knew that was the only answer. There's no other place to go. Be a Broadway star. That's. That's. It is only New York. So I never was really even scared. I just knew that it was going to. It was going to be hard. I was told it was going to be hard. We knew of a few alumni that had come and done this. And we had, you know, heard of their lived experience. But. I knew was going to be hard, but I knew that it was all that I. Wanted in life. So I was gonna make it work. 

Brian [00:12:58] So what was your first taste of New York? 

DeLaney [00:13:02] I had come when I was, like, ten with my parents. I believe we. 

Brian [00:13:09] Had. 

DeLaney [00:13:12] Oh, gosh, was it a combination trip? I think we went to Florida and then we went to New York and we saw some shows. I think I always get this wrong. I remember it being Beauty and the Beast Chorus Line. And something else. And I don't remember much. I have a terrible memory. I, like, rely fully on everyone else in my life to remember all the details of my childhood or even, like, three years ago. So I don't remember. I remember seeing those shows and like, I guess getting the bug, like officially getting the bug of like, this is, this is what I'm going to do. And then I came Amanda, my sister went to college upstate, so I had come back like two or three more times to visit her and, you know, for an excuse to come to the city and see Broadway shows. And then we ended up moving here together. She was working in Honduras. And then she. Finish that job. And we are moving together with no jobs, just like the world of possibilities in the Big Apple. And it worked out okay for a while. 

Brian [00:14:18] Yeah. Yeah. 

DeLaney [00:14:19] She ended up getting a job. It was actually crazy. She got the offer. I think it was for UNICEF. She got a job offer the same day that I. Oh, no, no. She started her job the same day that I found out that I booked Sideshow that ended up giving me my brother debut. So it was it was very big. We met. Yes. 

Brian [00:14:42] Big week. So you have you're not the first young woman to go to New York and see a show and say, this is what I want to do and then go home. 99.99% of the people don't go back and actually make a run out of it. And actually, 99.99% of those that do don't get to make their Broadway debut. It falls short for wonder what what what made the difference for you? Why was why do you think it was such a big thing for you to go through and finish and just. 

DeLaney [00:15:18] I think every. Every Broadway offer comes with so many different reasonings as to why it came to fruition. And I think I and I do believe that I am very talented. 

Brian [00:15:36] Yes. However, with that. 

DeLaney [00:15:38] However, I happen to look a lot like the two girls that played sisters that I had to understudy and. I think that helped. I also was very lucky to get an incredible agent right when I moved to the city. So. I don't know. I think it obviously has a lot to do with skill set and being someone that that that. Has the chops, but then so much of it is gosh, right place, right time. What they eat for breakfast. If they had indigestion when you walked in, you know, I guess it is so much fatigue and luck. So I, I feel very lucky. And then it's once you have one Broadway show, it's very it can be just like, what's the word steamrolling like. 

Brian [00:16:34] Yeah. 

DeLaney [00:16:35] You have that on your resume. And then they know you can do it. They know you're dependable, especially because of the swing. Which means I covered five different women in addition to the two leads. And the fact that, you know, I didn't get fired meant that I did okay, I guess. Yeah. 

Brian [00:16:55] So I had a couple more questions. I need to write these down because I forget so. 

DeLaney [00:17:02] So I will say a huge. Huge part of my success is my parents. They always believed in me. They told me I was the best singer in the world. They still do. They. My mom, I mean, took me. My entire childhood to dance class. And then when we moved to Cedar City, she drove me. That was 45 minutes down to St George because it was where I had been. It had really incredible musical theater training. And so, I mean, as we all do, like so much of this is a credit to my parents, not only the money they spent on my lessons, but also the support. I just am very lucky. And I. I think that's another huge reason as to why I keep doing this to myself, like I keep putting myself in these situations because they believe in me and they it's also so much that I want to make them proud and I want. 

Brian [00:17:59] To. 

DeLaney [00:18:00] Make it worth their money. But yeah, my parents. 

Brian [00:18:05] But but, you know, that's not what it is for them, right? They're not looking for a return on their investment. 

DeLaney [00:18:13] I know, I know. It just makes me feel better. 

Brian [00:18:17] What are. What are they looking for? What do you think they're looking for? 

DeLaney [00:18:23] I think that they. Want me to be happy. That's what I have. That's what I've noticed recently, especially that I am also so grateful for their acceptance of Charlie and their. Support of this wedding monetarily and with their time, because I'm not getting married in the temple and he's not going to convert. And. It is. It is just continual manifestations as to why. They love me and that they do accept me and love me and just want me to be happy. And that is so important. And it's so. Lovely. 

Brian [00:19:09] Yeah, it really is. It really is. And it's also lays a huge foundation for if you ever decide that you want to have kids of your own, that that burden. Isn't that that same concept is with you now? Yes. Right. You just want to love love your kids and support them and be there for them and. Yeah. Yeah. Know, I've got a couple of questions, but you have some you have something else you want to talk about a direction you want that to go. 

DeLaney [00:19:39] Um. I don't know, I we can go in this direction if we want. Unless we want to keep talking about theater and career and stuff. Just because I. Recently listen to your podcast with. I don't think I remember her name. I also don't know if she was named her. 

Brian [00:20:02] Truth be told. Yes. Yes. You didn't mention her name. 

DeLaney [00:20:06] Yeah. And. Just going back to the gratitude I have to my mom and my family. And there were, you know, my old Amanda, my older sister, she definitely paved the way for me. I feel like she took all the hits. You know, she went to battle so that I could come in and be like, Yeah, well, she's there a little bit. And so I am very grateful for her. Because I. Boy, oh, boy. Was I just. Terrible to her when she was like figuring out her life. I mean, I remember she wore a bikini. She had come back from college or something. And I don't even remember issues like planning to go on this, like power trip or something and was like trying on this bikini. And I. Just went in and I told her how disappointed I was in her and I cried because she had bought a bikini and I was so upset about it. And that was also at the time when my parents were having a hard time, too. So I was listening to them, struggling with her, questioning the church. And I just I just sat and did what I thought was right and what I had learned in church and what I saw that I there are the things that I, I hate regretting, but like there are a couple of moments in my life. Then I think back on all the time, and that's one of them. And another one we can get to later that I kind of do want to talk about, but. I just forget. I mean, I was probably, what, 11 or 12 or something. 

Brian [00:21:42] But I knew everything then. Of course. 

DeLaney [00:21:44] Of course. Of course. No, I feel so bad about that. But she friggin made it through. 

Brian [00:21:49] I don't want to leave this yet. But you said there's another thing you want to come back to give me one word, so I don't. We don't forget. What was. 

DeLaney [00:21:56] Homosexuality. 

Brian [00:21:58] Okay. Okay. So let's go back to her, because you're in an interesting situation, because you're the first person that I have interviewed that has been able to listen to other podcasts, other episodes that I put out before they were interviewed. And I'm thinking, I wonder how much that's going to change the flavor, because you've heard some of these other conversations. Nobody else I've interviewed up until now has. Hmm. Because none of them were out when I. When I interviewed all of them. I interviewed your sister. And I've got to interview your other sister. I've interviewed your fiancee. I've interviewed your hers. Your sister's husband. Those haven't aired yet. I purposefully didn't airs. Amanda's. It's already it's going to come out Tuesday. Okay. I did not want to put that out there before we had this conversation. Okay. 

DeLaney [00:22:55] She is my family is so popular. 

Brian [00:22:57] Is just. Thank you. Yes. It's just your your show. It's your show. I'm just the host. But but amazing people am and and I and I love all of you. You're. You're fantastic. And I mean that. Thank you. Yeah, it's just. Just amazing individuals. I asked Amanda a couple of questions and I'm going get ask you the same question. Do you think your mom regrets exposing you, your kids to this international? What life can be given the fact that Amanda's lived out of the country more often than not the last ten years, you moved away. That exposure may have cost her the connection to all of you through the church. And I don't know your whole story with that, but I know Amanda talks about moving to New York and that was a big thing for her, for her deconstruction. Do you think your mom regrets that? Do you think how much of your mom do you think regrets that or what parts of it might she regret and how much you feel otherwise? 

DeLaney [00:24:12] I think that this wandering. Trait that we all possess is because of her. I don't think she regrets any of it. I think that she has had to do some soul searching and reflection and. You know, re acceptance of different ways of life. But it is literally all her fault. And and in the best way we talk about this all the time, the three of us and my other siblings are wonderful and they have just like different journeys. But the three girls, we all have done such like cool things, arguably. And that was absolutely like. Forced on us by our our mom. I like to think, because she put in us this ambition and this this spontaneity, like this need for excitement in life or change or whatever. I mean, growing up, she would like be in Bahrain doing some aerobics competition and actually I think it was in Bahrain. She was pregnant with me. She won a limbo competition fully in the splits. She, like, went all the way down the splits and like limbo under and won the competition with me in her belly. So I think that I do not think she has any regrets because she she had to have known exactly what she was doing. Maybe it took some turns that she might not have expected. But I know she's like, very, very proud of us and. And happy that we have had such. Rich. Experiences thus far in life. Because we all I mean, Amanda, is this like friggin like world saver? Eunice ever. And I do whatever I do. I get paid to. 

Brian [00:26:06] Say Broadway star, make the Broadway star. I mean, I feel good. 

DeLaney [00:26:10] Hopefully I allow people to escape from reality, which is the way I like to look at it. And then Cassie's just like saving little baby puppies and kiddies. And so it's and they're all so different. And I think that's also. Like. Hugely important to. To. Just like showcase what she was to us and how she did. Just, like, give us these wings. And I can't imagine she regrets any of it. 

Brian [00:26:37] How about how about your dad? Does he regret any of it? 

DeLaney [00:26:41] I don't think so either. He's been he's been a little I don't I don't blame anything. I don't blame him for anything, any of his feelings or his like the speed at which he's come to terms with things because of his upbringing and because, you know, of all he's known and he had this incredible mother that became a widow when he was at the oldest of five. He was 12 years old. And she raised these five kids and. Had this just this dedication to the church that I have never known since. And that's all he knew. And so much of it was that he I don't know, I don't want to get too much into it because I, I we've talked about it and we have our disagreements and whatever. And he's very, very dedicated to the church but does allow conversations and does allow new thoughts and and understands. 

Brian [00:27:42] That that that. 

DeLaney [00:27:43] You know, leaders are human and maybe not everything they say is, is, is actual prophecy. So I. I appreciate where he's at. I appreciate his dedication to the church. And I love him for. Understanding that that there are other paths and there are other ways, you know? 

Brian [00:28:05] Yeah. 

DeLaney [00:28:06] But he's proud of us, too. 

Brian [00:28:07] Yeah, he is. So just hit me what you're talking about. I need to interview your mom and your dad. So. Yes. I've been to the. Found out the podcast. 

DeLaney [00:28:15] Oh, my gosh. They would be very I'm sure they would have so much to to add. 

Brian [00:28:20] Yeah. So I'm going to give you a choice. Multiple choice. Okay. For next topics, actually, I'll give you the first option is anything you want. Okay. The second option is patriarchy that a lot of people experience. And maybe you did or didn't. The third is faith, crisis and deconstruction. And fourth is your word from earlier homosexuality. 

DeLaney [00:28:45] I think that three of those can can be can be combined into one. 

Brian [00:28:50] Okay. 

DeLaney [00:28:50] Well, I know all of them, honestly. All of them. Okay. So my other regret, not regret, regret that I have was sitting in my car in front of the Wilkinson Center with my best friend Brandon, and him telling me he was gay and me crying. And I was. I cried for a couple reasons. I was sad because I knew it was wrong. At the time. And I was very scared for his life going forward. And he, like, jokingly reminds me of it every now and then. And I always, you know, we laugh about it now, but I always have to end it with like, I'm so sorry. I can never be sorry enough for that. 

Brian [00:29:42] I can't go back to that moment when you reached out and you needed help. And I went, Yeah, yeah. 

DeLaney [00:29:49] I will. And I wasn't like, I didn't say, You can't do this. I just cried. I was just I was just sad and scared. 

Brian [00:29:57] Why was it such a big deal for those listeners that aren't LDS or aren't aware of how how bad or what what you've been trained or taught to believe about that? Why was it such a bad thing for that person sitting in that car to. 

DeLaney [00:30:12] Well, it meant that eternal life was no longer attainable or, you know, celestial kingdom. The highest degree of heaven. And it meant that he could not have an eternal family, which was also sad to me. I knew that he wanted kids. And I knew that. Those kids would not be. Legitimate in the eyes of the Lord. The eternal family thing. Also just going back to Amanda. I remember one of the start, one of the biggest reasons I started questioning everything was when I really started understanding that I wasn't going to have her in the celestial kingdom. And I got. Immediately I was like, Well, I don't want that. I don't want a celestial kingdom without her. And I don't know. I don't. I don't know why a religion would would tell me that I can't be with my beautiful sister who is literally saving lives and dedicating her entire career and life to nonprofits. Like, it didn't make any sense to me. So. Anyway. So this idea that he wouldn't have that, it just made me very sad. And I at the time, I probably thought it was still just so, so sinful. 

Brian [00:31:39] Oh. 

DeLaney [00:31:40] Gosh. It just makes me sad to think back on it. 

Brian [00:31:44] It is simple. It's very black and white in the in the church and what they teach and this it all of this is right and all of this is wrong. And you can't pick and choose. It's not a buffet style religion. It's all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And you, by making one choice, have chose nothing. 

DeLaney [00:32:07] Yeah. 

Brian [00:32:08] And for that, I'm trying to be fair to members of the church still that are that are still active and still believing. That's how they feel. And they're losing that person because of. One choice, because you've chosen to not go to church or not to pay tithing or to drink coffee or alcohol or that one little decision is going to cost us everything. 

DeLaney [00:32:37] As I take a sip of my coffee. Yes. 

Brian [00:32:41] And that's what they've been taught to believe. And that's actually what they do believe. And there's an eternal family in the celestial kingdom. And your chair will be empty because you've chosen to not have a temple recommend or wear your temple garments or whatever this decision is. Mm hmm. That is very, very, very sad for them. 

DeLaney [00:33:07] Yeah. 

Brian [00:33:08] And they're not doing it out of spite. Right. That's not. How dare you defy the Lord. Mhm. It's I'm working so hard to be worthy of this celestial kingdom. Yeah. And you're making these simple little decisions where you choose not to be there with me. 

DeLaney [00:33:29] Right. I. So my first questioning was Amanda and not being with her for eternity. My second questioning was, I believe if we're going chronologically, I think it was me finally thinking that or just realizing that. I was being so blissfully ignorant and so selfishly ignorant. To be like, oh, it's so that's so hard for them. But I. 

Brian [00:34:03] Mean. 

DeLaney [00:34:04] And it was a it was being in the city, it was attending church. And then having done these contracts where I made friends with all these people and like a large you know, a large amount of them were gay men. And I started thinking, you know, what are they thinking about me stepping into this this church every Sunday? Because they know I mean, we've all seen the Book of Mormon. Like, we know what that means. And so it came to the point where I didn't want anyone to see me walking up 66th Street or whatever and stepping into that that church. That was one of my gay friends. Because what does that mean? I feel about them because I'm supporting this church that doesn't support them. And I'm so I feel very, very heated and passionate about this because I still have friends that are gay, that attend church, and I want their happiness. And if that's what brings them happiness, that's wonderful. But they are not. Accepted and they are not equal. And so it hurts my heart to watch them put themselves in this line of fire every Sunday. Anyway. 

Brian [00:35:22] The turmoil is got to be when you're pushing so hard for eternal salvation and at the same time have all of these other emotions and love and feelings and that it, you know, is just take just taking you exactly the opposite direction. Yes. 

DeLaney [00:35:40] Yes. So I stepped back and I said. If my friends, if these people that I love that are absolutely just as worthy of all the love and happiness in this world. If they cannot go into a temple and get married or if they cannot even, you know, hold a church calling if they have a husband or a wife, I do not want anything to do with the temple or holding a calling. And there are I mean, I. I haven't been to church in a long time. I go to church sometimes at home because I like to spend time with my family. And yes, there are some messages that are beautiful and I often have great experiences, but. I thought if I ever became inactive. Every Sunday at 11 a.m., I would feel this just this weight of guilt and this. And like someone review, sadly, someone arguing this wonderful turn of events if you're nothing. And I, I felt so much more anger sitting in that on that bench, listening to people talk about the ones your church or talk about marriage is between a man or a woman or. It's continuing to see just a bunch of white males sitting on the special fancy seats. So I. I want to respect everyone and everyone's choices and everyone religion, everyone's religions and all their beliefs. But I have a very hard time. I don't want to get judgmental because my mom always tells me, especially when it comes to like Republicans, like very, very staunch right leaning people. She's like, you can't say that they're wrong. You can't say you were right and they're wrong because you don't know how they were raised. You don't know what they've been exposed to. You don't know what their life is. But there are some things that I am right about and they're wrong. And you have. 

Brian [00:37:46] To go. 

DeLaney [00:37:46] Further to. 

Brian [00:37:46] That thing. They're going to say there are some things that they're right about and you're wrong about, and because they can't see it from the other perspective. 

DeLaney [00:37:55] But I see it as if it has to do with love. If it has to do with people's happiness and love, then it shouldn't be a right or wrong. If it happy, if it has to do with accepting someone because they choose to love who they love. It doesn't affect you at all. Same thing with people that want to transition. Same people that are that are choosing different pronouns or whatever it is. It doesn't affect you. And if it makes them happy and if it will keep them from potentially making, like, you know, physically harming choices, there's nothing else that matters. It doesn't it just doesn't matter. That's what I can't understand. Anyone that feels. 

Brian [00:38:36] I am. Just so you know, I am right there with you, with the whole love thing, for sure. But I just want to point out, because I like looking at the opposite side of things, that I might take your mom's perspective on this one. Mm hmm. They're going to say the same thing that says, as you said, as if it has to deal with love. And then you you explain yourself. There are people that are going to say if it has to do with freedoms or rights. That's the word they're going to put in there and they're going to go a completely different way with them. Yeah. Yeah. They just replace that different value because. This is a value that you've chosen as one of your course, and that is a value that they've chosen. And I think a lot of the differences that we have is we've just chosen those different course and like you said, had a different upbringing and been taught different things. And so anyway, I don't want to get into a whole political discussion there because in some areas, most of the time I am not red or blue, I'm usually purple. I think most people are purple in the middle, but on some instances I'm very red or some inches I'm very blue and I wouldn't say very on either case. I feel like I'm my spectrum. I'm more on this range here, but I try to understand people beyond that. They're not idiots. People beyond that, they're not idiots. They're very intelligent people with a different perspective. Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't understand how you could choose this over that. But that's because that's where I'm standing and where I'm seeing. Right. And they may or may not understand me. And that's kind of why I love these conversations, is I love people being able to hear someone who is a little bit more over here and a little bit feeling this way and they don't know. You can maybe understand why a little bit yet. 

DeLaney [00:40:27] And I, I mean, I, I don't know enough about I'm not as politically savvy as I should be. And I, it's not even about that. I shouldn't have used the word Republican. It's just about people that that can accept. 

Brian [00:40:41] But I think someone put in a different word there. It's not love for them. It's about freedom. It's about. Yeah. So I don't know. Although the same people that say it's about freedom want to make up a lot of rules to restrict everybody else's freedom, too. So this is just who knows how they justify, you know, being a former member of the church, the mental gymnastics that one can go through to keep their ideology alive. That just doesn't make sense. Looking back on it, you're like, What? What was all that about? 

DeLaney [00:41:22] Yeah. I when I, when I went on tour with Beautiful in 2015, I was still attending regularly on the road. I would find a place to, to go to soccer meeting every Sunday and. This was my third. I talked about my first experience as the eternal family. Second experience was. No longer just like. But I will say. While I was like, Oh, I don't know of that happened later. This, I guess, was my second experience of like questioning the church because it was after tours that I was like, I can't go anymore because like, I don't want I don't really want to be seen walking in the building. So I can't sit through that anymore and hear these things about my, my friends and these people I love anyway. So I'll say the second thing was I was on tour and I started dating my ex who I have to thank for so much. It was never a pressure thing of me questioning things. It was just he presented. Just arguments that I had never thought about or I'd never heard. And he was a black man. And so this. Just the idea that this church run by God allowed. This segregation for so long or allowed this you know the. That a man just as able bodied as a white man couldn't hold the same. Priesthood like. The fact that they succumbed to societal pressure is what I always hear. It was always just it was part of what it was in the day. That's just how it was. And I will never accept that. So then, in the same way I feel about my homosexual friends that attend church. Sometimes I feel that way about my people. My friends that are of color, that attend church still. That. We're so fully oppressed. And it was just okay, it was just fine. And then they decided it wasn't any more because of society. So that was another. He just opened my eyes to all of these things. So it started with like, you know, I'm a black man and I, you know, 40, 50 years ago, I couldn't I couldn't be a part of this church because he was also very sweet. He was attending church with me. He was like willing to, like, listen. And he was lovely about it, but. That was the second step to my journey of questioning things, and it was also just in terms of the patriarchy. He was always like, Well, why? Why aren't there any women? Leaders. And why is it that? What is this role? What is this like female's role? In this church. And I was like, Wow. 

Brian [00:44:22] Huh. 

DeLaney [00:44:24] So. 

Brian [00:44:25] Okay. So that's really interesting to me that until he asked that question, you'd never really considered that or you already had the answer and you assumed it was just perfectly normal. 

DeLaney [00:44:35] Maybe that. Maybe that. And then he just continued asking questions and I continued. 

Brian [00:44:40] But it's really me. Make you put pen on paper and explain the women's role in church. While you're writing it down. You're scratching your head thinking, No, no, that can't. No, this doesn't make sense. This. 

DeLaney [00:44:53] I think I just had a limited understanding. And so maybe I would be writing things. And then as I'm writing, he'd be like, Well, what about this? And I'd write. And then that's where it would begin the. 

Brian [00:45:04] Mm hmm. 

DeLaney [00:45:05] You know what I mean? So he was very pivotal in my. Journey to where I'm at. Also, I will say I still get sort of triggered when I hear. Someone referred to me as a human that has left the church because I said there's something about it. And I don't know, I. I think it's a defense mechanism that I. Still haven't been able to leave or take away because I love my dad so much. So much of what it comes down to. And also, I still have a lot of of member friends here and in my life. And so. My response is always I, I still consider myself, I guess, Mormon. I'm just back and I've taken steps back. I'm just removed until things change. And that gives me some sort of safety. Which I just I haven't really fully discussed this or really figured out what's going on in my head or my heart. So. I just wanted to mention that every time I hear that, I'm like, well, actually, no, no, I you know what I mean? Which is so. 

Brian [00:46:24] You leave your apartment now and you go down you're going down to run errands and someone runs into you and says, Are you a mormon? Your answer is yes. 

DeLaney [00:46:31] My answer is sort of literally. That's my answer, sort of. 

Brian [00:46:36] Okay. So you're hanging on to a piece of it, I guess. 

DeLaney [00:46:40] Out of out of like comfort, out of dedication. I don't know what it is. It's really actually, that's tough. 

Brian [00:46:48] Well, there's an interesting aspect, couple of interesting aspects I think at play here, and I've seen them a couple of times. One, I think that's the way a lot of people feel. That's not true. Yeah, a lot of people feel that way. A lot of people are so angry that they're like, That's it. It's all not true. I found this doctrine that this church history, whatever, they get upset about some facts and I want my names off the records. I'm never going there again. But there's also this idea of your parents. Who have taught you everything and given you everything and are setting this wonderful example and you're choosing to reject how much of that. Right. At least part of it. Yeah. But all of it. No, I can't. I can't. That's so painful, right? So that. That's part of it. I think there's also an interesting aspect that we've Gabby and I've talked about this, about Judaism. There are definitely Orthodox Jews and people that aren't Orthodox Jews more. Most of the Orthodox Jews will say, You're not Jewish. If you're not Orthodox, you're not Jewish. That's where the Orthodox will draw the line. But because Judaism has been around for so long, there's a huge group of people that they're Jewish. They haven't been to synagogue. They're not orthodox. It's more of a cultural thing. It's more of a historical. It's just this is my people. These are my my beliefs for the most part. My Orthodox. No generations back. We haven't been awful yet. 

DeLaney [00:48:30] Do I eat pork? 

Brian [00:48:31] Yes, I'm Jewish. Jewish? Yeah. And they still feel that belonging. Mormonism is so new and the church is so strict on its everything or it's nothing. Yeah. There is no middle ground to say I'm not active LDS, but I'm Mormon. I'm not orthodox LDS. But I Mormon. 

DeLaney [00:48:52] This is why I need a therapist. 

Brian [00:48:55] I'm not a therapist. 

DeLaney [00:48:57] No, I thought because I've been with. 

Brian [00:48:59] My wife and my son. Ah. 

DeLaney [00:49:00] I am such a proponent for everybody, whether you have baggage or not. Go to a therapist and talk it out. I say that fully hypocritical because I have been to therapist once. She was very old. It was in a basement and it smelled very musty and like an antique store. And I just thought. 

Brian [00:49:19] Everyone should have a good therapist. You should pass that by. Everyone should have a good therapist. 

DeLaney [00:49:23] And I went because I was I was having a hard time with my relationship with my ex, just about whether or not I should stay, whether I should stay in the relationship. And I was very conflicted. But now I'm and I've known this for a while, but it's also I've been living so easy, breezy, and with this wonderful person that I'm so obsessed with that doesn't ever pressure me to talk about religion or to worry about it. So I have been just on this like smooth sailing. But when I actually sit down and I talk about it, I realize that I. And I just I probably should should figure it out because I am I'm so very, very blessed and lucky to be in a and a mostly healthy mental state. And I realize that so many people are not as lucky. And I. I'm so, so grateful, but. I haven't sat down and talked about this in a long time, and I think that it could be helpful too, because it is this defense mechanism and it is this. This. Mask this like safety two to appease some people in my life. But we started this conversation the first hour. I was like, Well, this and that and that about Mormonism and like so mad about it. And yet I'm like, Oh, but I'm still a little bit. 

Brian [00:50:35] Like, it's. 

DeLaney [00:50:36] Really messed up. 

Brian [00:50:38] It's it's so normal. It is. It's very so this is one of the reasons I have this podcast is to talk about the deconstruction. Yeah. And if I'm being honest with you, Delaney, I don't think you've deconstructed at all. I think you've made the decision to not go to church, but I don't think you've really ripped it to shreds and picked up every piece and say. What part? It belongs to me. And what part do I not want to have? Part of me anymore? Yeah. And it's it's a very difficult, long, painful process. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And if. If what everybody is doing works for them, that's great. But what I have seen that happen is people are usually forced into doing that. Mhm. If it's easier just to put it in a nice little box and put it off the side and say well I'm kind of great, there's no reason you don't get a medal or a prize or a gold star for for any of this. Right. And I think it comes when when you're ready. I think it comes when a person is ready. And that may be never. I think there are pieces of it that you've you've addressed on. But I think it really shredding it and telling. I don't see that happen to many people that are younger than 40 with our culture to my age, that have their whole life realized, that have gone their whole lives 40, 50 years believing one way and then getting just hit upside the head with a cricket bat and said, nope. And at that point, it forced me to say, Well, but some of it, right, because this was helpful and I liked this. Did I not like the. No, I did like that. And I was I'm appreciative of that. And some people say I just don't do that anymore. Other people say I hate it all. It takes a certain set of circumstances and the right timing, I think, for someone to say. Let me see what parts I want to keep on. What parts I don't want to keep. Mm hmm. 

DeLaney [00:52:43] And I do feel like I've done that because I do think there are some wonderful lessons. To be learned. There are. Stories in the Book of Mormon. And if we're being even more wider, reaching in the Bible that are very helpful and I think we should all try to be like this, this being that is. Christ, we should all try to be. What he was because he was an incredible example of. Of pretty close to perfection. But I think that you're totally right. There's. 

Brian [00:53:21] And I'm still disparaging. I certainly don't. Your feelings are make you send you in a spiral but I think everybody does some aspects of that. You know that where they look at it and say, oh, that's not for me. I don't like this. The whole LGBTQ issue I'm certainly over here with. Yeah, the whole be nice to others and love your neighbors definitely on board with that taken that with me you know and that's not that's not unique to the LDS faith. It's probably in almost every religion that's been on the planet. 

DeLaney [00:53:50] Right. I think, though, if I dig a little deeper, it's that, you know, Amanda left and left. Left and Cassie. 

Brian [00:53:59] What was that? That was sudden, right? 

DeLaney [00:54:02] It was pretty sudden. It was over, you know. Yes. I had heard I had like heard rumblings my parents would have conversations about, you know, Amanda's reading this thing or she sent me this other article and whatever. So she left. That was very hard. Kasey, was this picture perfect example of exactly what we all should strive to be. It's still us. She's just the best ever. And then I was like, Okay, I think I can do this in between. I think I can. And it was also escaping to New York and living my own little life. I've continued this ability to be like this. I am far enough removed from the Utah culture. That? I don't know. Yeah. I can still have this little toe still dipping in. But as I speak openly about my issues, it is just so clear that I. While I do think there are some good aspects about any. Religion. There are so many issues and there are so many, just like deep rooted historical. Ickes That I do need to sit, I need to sit down. I need to need to, like, figure out my my menu of what I'm going to order and then send the rest back. 

Brian [00:55:28] So if you if I were to ask you right now. What does guide your life, your values, your philosophy? Is it is it kismet? Is it karma? 

DeLaney [00:55:41] You know, some nights I will be about to go to sleep and I'll be like, Oh, maybe I'll pray. 

Brian [00:55:48] And I. 

DeLaney [00:55:50] Even last night. Literally last night I was like, All right, dear, dear, my father. 

Brian [00:55:55] Wait a minute. 

DeLaney [00:55:57] Dear Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. You know, like, I have no friggin idea. I like to believe. 

Brian [00:56:03] Anyone who's out there. Hello? Hello. Testing. Hello. 

DeLaney [00:56:07] Truly, I mean, I would like to believe that we get to continue on after we die. I would love that. Recently it's been more, you know, fretful moments before sleep being like. 

Brian [00:56:26] Oh, but. 

DeLaney [00:56:27] What if not I? And also realizing that it just doesn't matter. You just got to be good. You just got to be kind. And in New York, once a week at least, you have experiences of people that don't know you, that are just mean for no reason. And it just. It's like these. These reminders of, like. Be nice back because you may never see this person again. You don't want to be a reason that they continue having an even worse day because obviously they're having a terrible day. But it just reminds you that, like, what matters most is your interaction with other humans. And just spreading joy and love. And. If that takes me somewhere good after this. Whatever Charlie is, I mean, like, he grew up Catholic. You know, better. You had a conversation with him. He doesn't necessarily. You know, it's not like God. It's like a higher being that probably put us here. There's a lot of miracles that. Might convince you of that. You know, just like flowers and trees and. Wonders of the world and human bodies and childbirth and whatever. So I don't know. I've I've been coming to terms and really figuring out. What it is that keeps me getting up every morning and keeps me being kind. Because maybe there's no payoff. And I think that's the most important part, is that it's not be nice. Because you want the celestial kingdom or. Or marry a mormon and have babies for the celestial kingdom. Its be a kind person for here and now. So that's. That's who I worship to is that idea. 

Brian [00:58:25] Okay. So let me ask you another question. Were there experiences you had in the church that you may have attributed to the Holy Ghost or some deep spiritual experiences that you had? And how do you look back and explain those now? Mm hmm. Or do you are you just. 

DeLaney [00:58:49] I absolutely do. Every time I had. Every time I felt the spirit, it was during a musical number in church. I if not, you know. If not sitting around a campfire at girls camp and somebody saying nice things about me or me saying something nice about other people or being under pressure of speaking or hearing somebody and feeling their nervousness about speaking. And that gives me chills. And chills are what I attributed to the Holy Ghost or feeling the spirit, which I do think is a type of feeling a spirit or feeling a good, nice feeling, whether it's God telling you, This is good, this is good, you should know this, or whether it's just like a visceral reaction to hearing something nice. But I think as a singer and as a music lover. It was almost always a musical number. And I'd be like, oh, my gosh, this is. This is I mean, like. Everybody feels that. I feel that when I'm, you know, at a symphony concert or if I'm at a musical. And maybe it is maybe it is the spirit. Maybe it is like. This is. This is something good. This is joyful. This is. Speaking to you on a level, whatever it might be. But yeah, that's what I have realized. That was one of the mantra. I was like, What about all those times that I felt things? I was like, Oh, every single time. It was during a musical number, and it's just because it was beautiful and the words were nice, you know? 

Brian [01:00:34] Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:00:35] So. 

Brian [01:00:36] Well, and the people that composed that music and performed that music, they know that. Yeah, they know they're tapping into something greater than themselves, right? Sure. Which is part of the beauty of the human experience is that you get to tap into something that doesn't belong to you. Yeah, but you can kind of control it a little bit and share it with others. Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. And that's a that is a huge kindness in and of itself. Mm hmm. Even if it's just a recording that you're putting out in the world that you don't know who will listen to it. Yeah. The situation. Ah. Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:01:13] I mean, I. This is just something that is. Current. But Charlie wrote me a song, our first Valentine's Day together. And it's absolutely beautiful. And it's so perfect and. I begged him to. Arrange it or figure out a way that we could do our first dance to it, because it was almost like he knew what he was doing when he wrote it. There's no there's no other option. We have to do that. So he talked to some friends and he actually got it. Orchestrated. And it just came back yesterday from this this guy in in England that we knew like friend, a friend. And he paid to have it orchestrated. And we were like, we're listening to it last night, and it's so good. And and it's only just the computer version of the instruments. So it's like, kind of a little messy, but. That is like a prime example of something musical that makes you feel things. And I'm very excited about it, kind of off topic, but it's just forefront of my mind. And I think that it's going to be. I think it's going to be really perfect and we all sort of sent out our invites. So watching check your mailbox. But. I think it's going to be really special. There's so many things I'm stressed about for that day. I mean, almost everything. But that's one thing that we even talked about last night that. That we know it's going to be a great day, but we know that that is going to make the day. It's going to be you know, the most special part is our first dance, dancing to this beautiful song that he created. 

Brian [01:02:58] And it's going to be so great. 

DeLaney [01:03:01] It gives me a little solace. A little like calm. 

Brian [01:03:03] Yeah, that's real, right? Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to be able to relax on the day? 

DeLaney [01:03:10] I hope so. I feel like I would consider myself a pretty I would say low maintenance. I definitely have a temper and I definitely, like, lose my cool. Have you ever read the book? I don't know if I'm allowed to swear. Yeah, well, I just read the subtle art of not giving a fuck. Oh, geez, Louise, did I need to read that? Because things I. And Charlie is so very patient. But I will cry about like. If I went into the post office and they looked at me a certain way, like just things that don't matter. And going back to my thing about people are just mean for no reason. I was dropping off my compost a couple of weeks ago. We're trying to, like, do that. It's like. 

Brian [01:04:03] You know. 

DeLaney [01:04:03] We like put it in the freezer and then we like walk up to 115 and Broadway and we dump it in this little compost bin. And I was, wait, there's woman dumping her compost. But the other compost bin had two people at it. It was like, Oh, maybe we can share the bin. So I go and she goes and she goes, Can you just wait a minute? Can you just wait? And I was like, Oh, I'm sorry. And I'm bad. It's also I need your opinion on this because I don't know if at that moment do you say, I'm so sorry, man, I'm so sorry, and let her get away with being an absolute bitch? 

Brian [01:04:37] Or do you knock her to the ground and give her compost? Oh, no, that's too far. 

DeLaney [01:04:43] Or do I say I feel like I did a little in between? I said, Oh, I'm sorry. I noticed that there were two people in this conversation I thought maybe we could share. And I wasn't wearing a mask, but we were outside and I had it on my wrist. And she goes, Oh, so you can see that I'm wearing a mask. And I was like, I don't know what that means exactly, but I'm going to take a step back. I'm no longer going to. Speak. But I. I left that moment. I called Charlie, and I just lost it. I just cried and cried because I couldn't understand. I couldn't understand why this woman was rude for no reason. I was a complete stranger. And I also thought one of my one of my my thoughts was if I struggled. With some sort of mental illness. How how would she know that I wasn't like that? That didn't affect me in a very real way, you know? So that also made me think. When you have the chance to meet a stranger or to interact with anybody. You don't know what their journey is. You don't know what their day has been. You don't know. So just leave them better than they were if you can, or leave them the same or. I just was so affected by that. And I. I don't know. It made me very sad. So I. In terms of wedding planning, I. 

Brian [01:06:09] She's not invited the council lady either. 

DeLaney [01:06:12] No. We went back the next week and I was like, Oh, Charlie, I hope she's here. I want you to see her. Well, what was I going to literally say? This. That was. 

Brian [01:06:18] Her. 

DeLaney [01:06:21] But. I think day of. I hope that I will just be able to let it go. We still need to get a day of coordinator so that I can fully do that. But. I do work myself up about things. But. But I do think, like when I've been in party settings or when I've like planned a party or a surprise party or something. And I know this is on a very different scale. I've usually been pretty chill. Especially when you're under the pressure of like other people's eyes, like people are watching you. I care way too much about what people think of me, so I think I'll be okay. 

Brian [01:06:56] I hope. Helpful to some things can be an awesome day. I hope so. 

DeLaney [01:07:02] I mean, I don't know how much you actually get to like, talk and answer questions yourself on this podcast, but I do want to make it very clear. Mostly I just want to say that like you and your wonderful wife so quickly made such an impression on me. And I think I was also prepped because Cassie talked about you guys all the time. So it's like, Oh, I cannot wait to like meet these magical people. And then I just have to say that when I did meet you, the bar was very, very high and the expectations were high. And you guys just, like, fully. Like, you're just. You're just. Very special people. And I also had, like, warned Charlie about you, and he feels the same way. And it when it came to, like, inviting us to the wedding, it was just there were no questions asked. It was like, oh, they've got to be there. Mm hmm. I mean, like, mostly we just want your presence and your light and your. And your energy and your. I don't know. You're very special, and I'm very grateful to know you. And then this is like the end of the podcast. I'm not saying, like, and now we're signing off. I just need the the listeners to know how. I didn't even think twice about doing this. 

Brian [01:08:19] Oh, hi, Mom. 

DeLaney [01:08:20] Because, no, me. It'll be me. I'll be the only listener to this episode. No, I just said more so than even like having anyone listen to this. I was just excited to, like, have a deep conversation with you because that is your specialty. 

Brian [01:08:36] I feel like. 

DeLaney [01:08:37] You and Gaby, it's just the best, and your kids are the best, and. Yeah. 

Brian [01:08:42] Thank you. That means so much. It really does. It really, really does. 

DeLaney [01:08:47] I also wanted to kind of pick your brain because, you know, we we do have this relationship of, like, kind of family. And I know that you've been very pivotal and helpful to like, Cassie's life on many different angles. And like I had known about Gabby's journey, I feel like leaving the church before I knew about yours or, you know, separating yourself, whatever you want to call it. You know that I have issues with exactly what title we put on that journey. But I, I mean, I would love to kind of hear if you're open to talking about it, I kind of want to hear what like, you know, long story short, if you want or whatever. 

Brian [01:09:32] Yeah, I that's that's only fair. Yeah. I to be a conversation. So I used to take great pride in the fact that all four of my kids graduated from seminary. Yeah, and that is a huge pain point for me. No. Not that they graduated from seminary, but because I made them graduate from seminary. My daughter Jessie had no interest in the church from the time she was a young woman. 12. She just. That was not her thing. Out of. Respect for us. She went every week. She graduated from the seminary. And I just it's painful for me to think of how much pain and discomfort I caused her. In that. I have this new parenting motto that I'm going to make on t shirts as say, learn, apologize, love, repeat. Hmm. You can't parent in reverse. At the time, I thought we were doing them all a of a favor, a service. That's how you parent. I see things differently now. I was. I'm a I'm kind of a slow thinker and. My kids have all and all pretty much left the church. Gabby was leaving the church. I was in the Bishopric. I had doubled down. I had been seven years. The High Priest group leader. Been in the Bishopric for three years. I was in another bishopric before that for a short period of time. And. Looking back on it, I'm trying to figure out how it happened because while I was going through it, I didn't realize this is what was happening. But even while I was in the Bishopric, I had the idea of. You've got your first two great commandments, love God, which I still don't understand that we need to love God, that He needs us to love Him. Whether the love of God means just show him respect and obey his commandments, I'm not quite sure how how I interpret that. The second commandment is pretty easy. Love your neighbor. That doesn't need. There's no asterisk. Asterisk. There's no explanation needed there. I'm totally I'm into that. I'm all about loving your neighbor. You have some more commandments. You have the Ten Commandments, you have the you have the bishop's handbook. You have the young men's in your women's handbook, you have the state presidents handbook. And four times a year, the young women need to hear about how many piercings they can have and how they need to cover their shoulders. And I'm saying thinking with all of that out here, do we if we really nailed the love your neighbor part. It seems like we're so lost him. All of these other things that just don't make as much of a difference that, okay, I'm willing to cede that at some point. It does make a difference. But I'm just seeing that we don't have the love your neighbor part. And so while I was in the Bishopric, I advocated for every talk, every lesson, every assignment, every calling we give should be love your neighbor through service, love your neighbor through paying fast offerings Love your neighbor by showing modest in your clothing love your neighbor through that it should be that it should be all come back to how you love your neighbor. And if you're forcing it on someone, then you're not loving them as your neighbor. You're not seeing them as your neighbor. They're not your neighbor. This rule is more important than the person you're talking with. And that just became a hurdle that I couldn't get over. And I started to realize and this is. I think, you know, I'm writing a book kind of autobiography somewhat autobiographical about this, about a mormon bishop who goes through a faith crisis and doesn't know how to handle it. And he kind of goes through the same things that I went through. I've made up some other stuff that didn't happen as well, but it's a novel, after all. 

DeLaney [01:14:10] You're allowed. 

Brian [01:14:11] To. But one of the things that we I do have in common with that person who's a bishop in that book is he starts to realize how much damage he may have been causing to someone. By who had come to his help in a parking lot in front of the will and in time of need, said, I'm gay. And my response was, Well, have you prayed about it? Do you need a blessing? That's not what they need. Can we just love your neighbor? Can we just say I love you? You're a wonderful person. Yeah. Can you just sit by me, side of me anytime you want to come to sacrament? Or can you? What can I. How can I support you? What can I? I didn't feel like in the long, long term, I didn't feel like I could be that person and still be that old white guy sitting in front of the stand and walking in with an armful of handbooks and policies. I needed to let my neighbor know that I love him. Mm hmm. Not in spite of the fact. Not that. I needed to let my neighbor know that I love them the way that your parents showed that they loved you. Not conditional. Yeah. Not if you can jump through all these hoops, which I've since come to realize. You can't jump through all the hoops. The ultimate goal of the LDS Church. Is not even just having a temple recommend, it's not even going to the Temple Mount Temple on a regular basis. You need to do more. You never get there. And every step you're sure there's guilt and shame involved with it that you just can't get rid of? Mm hmm. And I just decided I couldn't do that. I needed to be out there. I needed to let my neighbors know that I will be here to love you. My biggest concern has been I don't want to influence people that I know that are listening to this podcast. I don't want to influence them to leave the church. If it's working for you. Wonderful. I'm so happy for you. I miss you. I had someone reach out to me just yesterday. One of the first people in the ward that reached out to me that said they listened to my podcast and they loved it. Most of the people in my neighborhood I haven't talked with since I left the church. We've been living here for 22 years, raised all four of my kids here. Raised their kids here. There are maybe a handful of them that I've talked with more than just a hello. Sense. And I thought we were friends. I thought we were almost Ward family, and that's not it. And I don't judge them. I don't blame them. They are. I'm the one that left so I can see their perspective. You want to leave? I want to leave you alone. I want to be. But I'm also thinking I had this wonderful person at the gym who started listening to my podcast, who's very active LDS member, and she came up to me and said, Listen to your podcast. I said, Yeah, usually I can tell when people listen to my podcast because they won't look me in the eye again. They've made up some story in their head about a about me that needs to make sense about why I would leave the church. And that's all they need to know, is that I've left. She did the opposite. She came up and asked me a question. So tell me about this. How did you think about this? What do you what do you think about this now? And I'm like, Thank you for asking. Nobody asks. Mm hmm. They make up a story that works for their narrative, and then they assume. That's where you are. Okay, well, that's where. You don't know. You got your story wrong. It makes sense for you, but it's not at all cost of the truth. We all do that. I'm not right. 

DeLaney [01:18:13] Right, right, right. 

Brian [01:18:14] Right. But how brave it is for someone to say, hey, we're good friends. Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? Mm hmm. I would love that. Yeah. She came up with to me the day after that and asked me another question. So I came across something else. What do you think about this? You know, she wanted to know what you think about people who are getting ready to go on missions. I said, I think if they want to go, I think that's fantastic. Yeah. And she said, Well, I know a lot of people that said, Oh, I wouldn't let the missionaries go out. I would tell them not to. Don't go spread that. Like, that's not me. You know, I serve the mission. There are parts of it that I that I thought were good. I would do it differently now if I you know, but that's what I did then. And I'm grateful for the opportunity. And there's some of the things that I can take from the church and be grateful for. But there are some of the parts of the church leadership and policies that I just can't abide anymore. Yeah. And I don't want to throw rocks at the church because it only hits the nice people that are inside. Mm hmm. And there are some wonderful, wonderful people in the church, and I totally love and respect them and admire them. And I hopefully some of them are listening to this, and they know that. Mm hmm. More likely than not, they've come up with a story that explains why Brian and Gabby left. And they need to believe that reason is why we left. And that makes them sleep at night. And I'm glad that works for them. That's fine. Yeah. And if they're not ready for it, if like I said, if it's working for them, good for them, you know? Yeah, it was good for me for a long time. Good for my kids for a long time. Yeah. So. 

DeLaney [01:19:52] Now are any. Nobody's active, right? 

Brian [01:19:56] Nobody is active, no. Okay. My only married child was married in the temple. And they don't believe in the church anymore. They definitely deconstructed. He definitely deconstructed. 

DeLaney [01:20:11] I know very little, but I do know some of that. 

Brian [01:20:15] He actually is got his master's degree in architecture, a resi. And as part of his master's degree, he had to write a thesis and he published it as a book. Just kind of self-published it. It is a beautiful piece of poetry about. The elements and how stone doesn't give, but what does? What gives its life so that others might live? And he calls them like the mother and the father. And he goes through his whole deconstruction and relates it to architecture and poetry and nature. And it's just this amazingly beautiful work. Well, but he struggled through all of that, coming to grips with it mostly on his own, because he had just moved out of the East Coast and go into school and. Yeah, and yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:21:10] I, I do you I text every now and then and I cannot believe we haven't gotten together, especially because we're all like, boardgame nerds and, like, we have to play Mars or. Right. We just got this new game. Gosh, this is such a terrible change of topic. 

Brian [01:21:26] No. Great. 

DeLaney [01:21:27] I thank you for sharing that. 

Brian [01:21:29] Yeah, it was for me. 

DeLaney [01:21:30] Like it was. Well, we would have gone about our lives and I would have understood that you understood that you had your journey. But it it is just really nice to see someone that I see, you know, as as as a father figure or as like, family and as as a full grown adult man. And hearing the story, it is just really, really comforting. And I don't know, it just. It's really nice to hear. So. Thank you. 

Brian [01:22:04] Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:22:05] Yeah. But in terms of boardgames. 

Brian [01:22:10] But but back to the more important. 

DeLaney [01:22:14] You also I mean, that's you're also a huge part of my journey into board games. 

Brian [01:22:20] So this is very I'm very grateful for that. That's that's a wonderful experience. 

DeLaney [01:22:25] But can you. This is hilarious that we've talked about all these like wonderfully deep concepts, but also it's really needed for us to talk about this. 

Brian [01:22:34] Yeah. And to get together and play some board games. Yes. So your new Porgy. 

DeLaney [01:22:38] We got this new. Have you played Talisman? Have you heard about this? 

Brian [01:22:41] I've heard of. I haven't played it. 

DeLaney [01:22:43] They have so many expansions. We have a friend that he actually plays Elder Cunningham in Book of Mormon, and he is one of our really, really close friends. He's actually going to be at the wedding. You have to meet him. He's such a funny and loving. His name's Cody. He is the biggest board game nerd I've ever known. He has Talisman. He probably has ten, 15 expansions that he likes to play all at once. So he has this huge dining room table, and it is like, you can't sit, you can't really play with cards. They have to go to like the side of you because it's just there's an added room here and an added room here and then. Anyway, he's actually in our dad group. Okay. That was so funny because they were like. They were like our. We didn't see anyone as much as we saw them over the pandemic because we would meet together, you know, semi frequently to do session sessions. And so when we were talking about who we need to invite to the wedding, we were like, I guess we have to invite our whole group. 

Brian [01:23:42] We can't invite half of them. Yes. 

DeLaney [01:23:44] So I'm really excited that just. 

Brian [01:23:46] All of the humans get that none of these is incest. 

DeLaney [01:23:49] If you are barred, you are not invited for sure. But so it's game talisman. We asked for it for our on our registry and our friend got it for us and it already came. And I'm like, am I allowed to like. 

Brian [01:24:03] Open my gifts already? 

DeLaney [01:24:06] Because we really want to play it. But it's really I mean, it's super simple. It's like you, you're a character and you have to essentially make it into this inner realm and you have to, like. 

Brian [01:24:12] Fight this like. 

DeLaney [01:24:14] Devil, like being, which is, wow, maybe we can, like, do a separate podcast, deconstructing mnemonics. 

Brian [01:24:22] And realize where this was last minute time. Back to our previous discussion. 

DeLaney [01:24:26] But it's really great. And we had sitting unopened on our coffee table because I'm like, I don't know. We also got some knives that we were really excited about. And I was like, We do need a bread. 

Brian [01:24:35] Knife like me opening. You know, one of the things that I've learned that I wish I would have learned decades sooner. You get to decide. Well. You get to. Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:24:54] Is my wife. 

Brian [01:24:55] I have another conversation that I'm going to record in a couple of weeks. And I was just talking with her yesterday about what she wanted to talk about. And she has a preschool preschooler and she's left the church. Her parents have not. Her dad, they were having a meal. I'll probably tell her this story. So I hate to say it here, but I'll maybe I'll edit this part out. I knew that she her dad wanted to say blessing and her six year old. I want to say it. Okay, great. She had no idea how to say a blessing or say a prayer. And so this person's like. I haven't taught my daughter how to pray. My dad must think. What kind of mother am I? And so she's kind of stuck between what she's always known and what she thinks she's finding and seeing how that affects her daughter. And I'm like, you're teaching your daughter that she gets to decide what she wants to believe. That she doesn't have to have a set of rules handed to her. There are no rules that, you know, in in Glennon Doyle's phrase, you're a goddamn cheater. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You're not a dog. You're a you're a cheetah. Be a cheetah. Yeah. And I can't imagine a better gift you can give your child. Yeah. No. The guilt and the shame of the church that rolls over. Yeah, it's definitely still there. And it jumps right to the forefront of your mind. Mm hmm. But just kind of be aware that, you know, you you get to decide. I think that's a that's a huge lesson. It is. It is everything is all a cart. You know, you pick and choose every restaurant you go to. It's all a cart. You get to choose. You don't have to have whatever they don't want at all. It comes like that. Well that's not how I want it. Mhm. 

DeLaney [01:26:49] And that is how I order at restaurants. I'm very picky and annoying, so it's. 

Brian [01:26:55] Hard to figure that out. Yet you had an unopened board game sitting there on the shelf and you haven't yet. Come on. 

DeLaney [01:27:02] Louise. We could deconstruct. 

Brian [01:27:03] That, too. You could use the knife to open the board game. Yes, I could. 

DeLaney [01:27:07] I could. And I should. And I. 

Brian [01:27:08] Will. And I will. I will. 

DeLaney [01:27:12] I know this has been so. I mean, it's been it's really just been this nice conversation. I'm sorry. I should have prefaced that while I'm an actor, I do well when someone gives me the words to say. I am not an improviser and I am not a stand up comedian. So when I'm doing things like this, I have a very hard time remembering any of the words that I've ever known in my entire life. So I apologize now after the fact that I didn't make any sense and that none of the words I used were probably correctly used in terms of their definition. So sorry. 

Brian [01:27:51] Because it could have saved me an hour. 

DeLaney [01:27:54] I wish I was better at this. I mean, and I know people are trying like, gosh, you see people be interviewed for movies and stuff, you know, when they're doing their press tour. 

Brian [01:28:02] Though. I hate that. 

DeLaney [01:28:04] I know. And it's always refreshing when someone is real and does say something off the cuff or makes a mistake. 

Brian [01:28:10] They usually get in trouble. 

DeLaney [01:28:11] For saying that's true. I'm just being charming and I'm very off the cuff and. 

Brian [01:28:17] Their usual self. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Are there other topics we need to talk about we think we missed? I'm looking at my list. I told you we wouldn't get too many of these questions. Right. 

DeLaney [01:28:29] I know, I know. I was reading the questions. I was. 

Brian [01:28:30] Like. 

DeLaney [01:28:31] I don't know if you don't need to know. You don't want to know the answers. But also, I do want to thank you for. Making me feel important. And not just in the sense of like. Whatever popularity or whatever. But. I. Have never been asked to speak about my story or my life. And it's nice. You are doing a very good job of making me feel like it's an important story and it's an important life. And it's been very refreshing to speak openly about said things. So thank you. 

Brian [01:29:15] Thank you. I think you have an amazing life. 

DeLaney [01:29:18] I mean, I just always I've always made the joke and belittled myself in the way of like, I'm not a very deep thinker and I'm not super intelligent, you know? Kathy was always both Kathy, Amanda were the smart ones. And my dad is so intelligent. And I my mom and I always make the joke that like, you know, we we do our best or we're pretty or what, you know what I mean? And so to be able to be on this platform, speaking my own thoughts and my own ideas. Is a new and. Really nice. 

Brian [01:29:56] Well, I think you're a beautiful, beautiful person. Thank you. I think you're absolutely amazing and wonderful. And I am so happy that you let us share a little bit of you. With whoever may listen to this podcast. Me, just me. They're going to see that now. No, it's going to go platinum and platinum. I don't know what podcast and I know that did remind me of another question I wanted to ask you, though, and I may mix these or I don't edit these much when they come out. Mostly because it's way too much work. But this may go into an earlier spot. I don't know. I'll definitely take out all this rambling. I usually don't take out even my rambling because it's too much editing, but not like any. I'm leaving it in. It's going to be someone's. 

DeLaney [01:30:48] Going to go platinum, though. We have to make sure. 

Brian [01:30:50] Yeah, we do. They'll be on the greatest hits. Tell me something that people get wrong about you. They assume about you that they kind of know you and they say, Oh, yeah, well, you know, Delaney is. And they're like, Yeah, Delaney really isn't. Mm hmm. And maybe you let them think that for a reason. Maybe you let them think that. Yeah, I am an amazing chef. 

DeLaney [01:31:19] I know this could be incorrect, but I do feel like. In terms of career and in terms of talent, I think a lot of people are like, oh, no, she's she's like amazing. She's so talented. She's very confident. She's I mean, she's got it. Or like if I'm not working, you know, I fear that people are like, oh, she's choosing to do that. Like it's on purpose. Like she's taking a break or she got it. She's got to be working on something else. And that has a lot to do with the fact that straight out the gate I did pretty well and I was lucky enough to do some Broadway shows. And I fear that sometimes people think, you know, she's fine. Oh, she's great. She's totally fine. And I am oftentimes not at all. And I have a lot of insecurities in terms of my talent and my skills in this business and. I fear every day for the success of my career or the longevity or the lifespan. Just like the survival of my performing career. That's kind of a downer. But. 

Brian [01:32:35] Oh, but. But it's real, though. Yeah. Do you think that's really any different from almost everyone else who is in entertainment? 

DeLaney [01:32:43] Oh, gosh, no. 

Brian [01:32:44] I mean, I'm sure Beyonce even Beyonce might feel like that, but I doubt it. I mean, come on. She's Beyonce. 

DeLaney [01:32:50] Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people do feel that. I just think that. I don't know. There's, you know, like alumni that graduated after me or or friends of mine that are are more acquaintances. Sometimes I just think that and not that it matters and not that they ever need to find out or know how stressed or sad I might be about my career. But you're so right. Everybody feels that. And I you know, I reconnect with a friend every week that it's like, I don't know if I'm ever working again. I'm like, wait a minute, not you two. So, yeah. That's that's something, I guess just in terms of my confidence, I think that I allude to the fact that I'm very confident. I grew up being the the entertainer. I was always like the one that made every laugh in my family and the one everybody laughed at, which has had a lot. 

Brian [01:33:47] Of. 

DeLaney [01:33:49] Negative effects on my mental wellness now. But. I think I keep a really strong facade of of confidence and. It's a lot of times. Manufactured. 

Brian [01:34:08] That makes sense. Well, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I don't think that you have the. The the run of the market on that or even people living in the entertainment business. I know a lot of people that have done very well in their business careers that are like, I'm afraid people are going to find out that I'm just like everybody else. I can be replaced tomorrow by someone for a 10th the salary and. I think that's just human nature, right? I think that even. You know, even the professional athletes, the MVP of the league and everything, I would imagine, goes home at night thinking there's no way this last one more year, there's no way I can trick them into getting another MVP. This was my seventh. But people are going to know that I didn't deserve any of them. Come, come on, come on. At some point, as humans, can't we just say. It doesn't matter if you get an eight. It doesn't matter if you get the first one. You're you're here. You're doing this now and today looks like this. And last year it looked like this, and next year might look like this. Yeah. But through these conversations, it's like, yeah, sometimes I'm out taking the I'm out taking the bow and everybody loves me. And I just killed it. And I know that I killed it. And everyone in the audience knew that I killed it. And a year from now, the show is going to be over and I'm going to be out scrounging for babysitting jobs and voice overs. And that's just life. That's everybody's got that, right? Totally. Can we just talk about that? To be honest about that, I'm I'm unemployed right now. Yeah. So I'm trying to fix that. But I don't want to fix it with just anything. I want something that works for me that. Yeah, maybe I'll start taking up babysitting. 

DeLaney [01:35:57] Cats and cow cages and I'm. 

Brian [01:35:58] Sure. Oh, no, not that good. I would just take him to the trampoline park and just say how much for the day. Yeah, just go ahead. Go crazy. Just go crazy. I got to sit over here with a book. 

DeLaney [01:36:12] I can't wait to see him. 

Brian [01:36:14] I'm so excited. Also. Yes, I'm energy. 

DeLaney [01:36:17] I know I am home for I'll at least be up north for like four or five days. So I would love to do a game night or dinner or whatever else. 

Brian [01:36:28] Hey, I know those trip homes are nuts. 

DeLaney [01:36:32] I know, but I'm home for two weeks. 

Brian [01:36:35] I would be honored if we could get together for a dinner or a game night or whatever. You just pick the night and say this is when it has to happen, or even if it's just a lunch. Or I would I would love to do that, but don't feel any pressure because I know you feel pressure from 500 other places to. 

DeLaney [01:36:48] Thank you for saying that, but you're high on the priority list, so I would love to get together. 

Brian [01:36:54] Well, even if we just have a bowl of Cheerios or something else. 

DeLaney [01:36:59] But Lucky Charms, please. Lucky Charms or Cinnamon Toast Crunch. 

Brian [01:37:06] Cinnamon Toast Crunch came my. I just have just a couple of more random thoughts and then we can whatever. So if you got something else you want to talk about, now's the time. Derail the conversation. 

DeLaney [01:37:18] I think we've covered a lot. 

Brian [01:37:19] I know. Isn't it great? Talked about breakfast cereal and board games when Delaney is at her best and she's just feel it and life is going well. What's the best part about her? 

DeLaney [01:37:45] In my baby blessing my dad and then also in my. 

Brian [01:37:51] You remember your baby blessing. You said you didn't remember your childhood or you remember baby blessing. That's it. 

DeLaney [01:37:56] My father reminds me all the time about my baby blessing, my patriarchal blessing, my baptism blessing. They all had a common theme of friendship and being a good friend and. I've as we all have, I've had some. Relationships that have required more. Of me that have been that have tested my. Ability to be a good friend. But I would say overall. I think that I'm a good friend and not so much in this, in the way that I like keep in contact with people where I check in or I. We face time all the time because I, you know, my best friend from childhood, we see each other once a year maybe. And it is, you know, those the kind of friendships that it's all back to normal. Neither of you have any. It's so low stakes. You don't there's no requirements. If we plan to face time, that doesn't end up happening and then six months go by. It's okay. But I do feel like when I'm in the presence of the people I love and my friends. I like to believe that I do a good job at making them feel seen and heard and funny and loved. And appreciated. Because I always had that, like, you know. Just. Just drilled into me. Oh, you're a good friend. You're a good friend. You're a good friend. God said so more so. My dad said so. But I took that and I ran with it. And I. I feel like it's been. Like number one importance to me. And that's why I talk a lot about just being kind and the strangers and, you know, strangers, you know, just like being being good. And so especially with the people I love. I hope. That I'm correct in saying that it's something that I fell in love with with Charlie. And I think it's something that hopefully that was like something that were compatible. And I would say he's much better at it. But when I see him with us, he has this effect on his friends and I wish it hadn't been of such importance when we started dating. But I do care that the person I am with that I choose to be with. Is also loved by others. It's like, Oh, it confirms that, oh, they are cool, they are good, they are funny. So but it was screamed at me from every. 

Brian [01:40:36] Charlie. I don't see that. Like, I'm not really him. 

DeLaney [01:40:40] It's kind of sickening. It's kind of like he just has so many best friends. That's why it was hard to invite people to the wedding because he was like, Oh, what about them? Because he joins a show or he, you know, is introduced to a group of friends. And he is such a beautiful chameleon in the way that he will alter his sense of humor to not only make them laugh harder, but also make them feel funnier because he just has this sense of humor that is such a beautiful rainbow and that is so important. People don't realize how important it is to be laughed at and be laughed with and. Or to laugh. And so I'm switching this saying that's that's him. I like to think that I do a little bit of that too, and not so much in that I'm like this standup comic, which he is. But I. 

Brian [01:41:32] I so I don't know. Echo. So what was the Echo? Like the Alexa. 

DeLaney [01:41:42] She doesn't know. She doesn't have an answer for that. So I'm not. 

Brian [01:41:50] Yeah. And so in your mind, that's just someone who makes people feel comfortable and feel like they can be themselves and listen and. 

DeLaney [01:41:57] And bring joy. 

Brian [01:41:58] Bring joy. Yeah. Yeah. I think your not only is that part true because I've always felt very comfortable with you. I think that's one of the reasons I get along so well with all of you, is you just have that ability, just that instant love ability that I'm a real person. And you can be a real person here. You know, you can be your your self here. And it's not going to affect that. You're not judged by that. You're not. But I think you are also loved by a lot of people who have only met you once, maybe not even don't even know you. I think that's part of the the the it factor that whatever that I think a lot of entertainers try to get you see them on stage even for just a cameo you want people to remember you were there and to be part of that should fit in. Right. I think you've just got that naturally. I think you you know. You know. So thanks for letting me be one of those people that fit in. Thanks. My little cameo. 

DeLaney [01:43:03] Anytime. Anytime. 

Brian [01:43:09] We've covered all the big topics, right? 

DeLaney [01:43:11] I think we did. 

Brian [01:43:13] Thank you so much for your time. It's so wonderful just sitting down and talking with you and just kind of every time we see each other, one of us is just in town for a little bit and it's with 20 other people and maybe you get 5 minutes at a table most of more often you don't. 

DeLaney [01:43:28] But it's always what I leave remembering and thinking about, because it's always important whether we're talking about like, you know, Seth, it's like I lead remembering our conversations because you have that effect on people. 

Brian [01:43:45] So. 

DeLaney [01:43:47] It's really it's really my pleasure to know you and to be your friend. 

Brian [01:43:51] Well, thank you. And thank you for sharing yourself, because I know this these can be difficult conversations. Yeah. Yeah. 

DeLaney [01:43:58] But you made it feel very open. And whether or not my parents listen to this and want to remove me from their will, then that. 

Brian [01:44:05] Is so be it. 

DeLaney [01:44:08] Every time I tell my mom there's a new charge for the wedding, she's like, Oh, it's okay. Or My dad, mostly, he loves saying this. Well, it's just going to come out of your inheritance. 

Brian [01:44:15] And I'm like, Okay, well, I'd rather have it now. Could we buy us a house? Can we just get that? Let's get this housing thing figured out right now. Let's. 

DeLaney [01:44:23] Well, my mom, she said, you know, you can just all go elope and we'll give you the money for the wedding. And I was like. 

Brian [01:44:30] Well. 

DeLaney [01:44:32] She wouldn't have let that happen. 

Brian [01:44:33] In all reality. Yeah, she likes weddings. Do you like wedding, too? It's a party. 

DeLaney [01:44:38] Oh, my gosh. Nothing. I love nothing more than going to a wedding. 

Brian [01:44:41] And it's. This is your wedding. This is your party. It's going to. 

DeLaney [01:44:44] Be that's why the pressure is so high, because I've been to so many great ones. And I here's the thing. 

Brian [01:44:49] The thing about this one is that you're going to be there. It's about Delaney. And I love that. I don't care what's on the table or the napkins or the camera. 

DeLaney [01:44:59] I know. Tell me, please keep keep reminding me of that, because there is the aspect of I'm so comfortable being on stage, being a different person and this is me on stage in full view, the featured star of the show. But I have to be me. I have to. I have to. So they have to play you. Yesterday I had a fitting for my dress, and I kind of was like. I'm not excited about this any more. Like I've put it on so many times now that I'm just like, Does it does it reflect me? Is it is it me? So I kind of had a little bit of a meltdown yesterday. 

Brian [01:45:28] But it'll be fine. It's going to be better than that because. 

DeLaney [01:45:32] I get to marry him. 

Brian [01:45:34] Right? 

DeLaney [01:45:34] Frickin best human being I've ever known. And I don't know. I do not know how I got so lucky to find him. Because I was. I'm so frickin picky and I'm so annoying and I have such a terrible temper and I'm such like I am so impulsive. 

Brian [01:45:51] You're really selling yourself here. This is this is this how you do this on all your tinder? Is this how you come across them? 

DeLaney [01:45:58] No. I looked at him last night, and I was we were kind of having this, like, just frustrating moment of, like, money and invitations and whatever. And I just, like, slowly said, like, are you sure? Are you sure? Me? Forever. You're sure? They said, Yeah, so I guess we're doing this. 

Brian [01:46:17] Yeah. Good for both of you. 

DeLaney [01:46:19] No, he's the best. And I'm so lucky and I'm so happy. And I cannot wait to have his kids and live life with him. 

Brian [01:46:27] You're both very lucky. Yeah, yeah. You're both awesome. 

DeLaney [01:46:30] Him more than me, but. Yeah. 

Brian [01:46:32] No, no. Anyway, all right. I will let you go. Okay. Tell Charlie I said hi. I will. I will, I will. Okay. What's he doing today? He is. He's locked in the closet. 

DeLaney [01:46:47] He's locked in the closet? No, he has a show tonight. He. I will give him some tasks to complete. I have to go babysit, but he will be doing something for me. Wedding related. I will make sure it. 

Brian [01:46:59] Okay. Well, I will cut this part out. But how is he doing with the show? The show cancel. 

DeLaney [01:47:06] It's a bummer. He was kind of expecting it. We were kind of waiting for it. They had broken a million for two weeks in a row, which is great. And then they hit like 751 week and then it was that next week they're like, All right, we're closing. 

Brian [01:47:17] Whoa. 

DeLaney [01:47:18] Really? We had one one that week. And I think it's I think that they're they're like 99% sure that it's the tour's going out and they want to just use the costumes and use the set and use that so that it's it's it's shutting down right before the tour goes out. So and people want the theater, new shows really want to come in. And unfortunately, they're all friggin movie musicals that are going to be bad. But that's all apparently that the low brow audiences want. 

Brian [01:47:47] So that's what we're doing. Whatever. That's a bummer. 

DeLaney [01:47:53] It's fine, though. He's fine. He he's done a lot of voiceover stuff recently. He actually booked another one for tomorrow for USAA. It's like insurance, right? What is that's what. 

Brian [01:48:03] He does now. 

DeLaney [01:48:04] I just know. I know that jingle, but he's doing something. Yeah. It's so funny to listen. Listen to him record these voiceovers because he. The one it was like. All right. You can come on back now. I think he's talking to a car that's backing up here. He did that one line. All right. You can back up now. Like, I'm sitting here getting ready and I hear it probably 500 times different ways. I think he has said like three takes, but he wants to get the best three takes, but he booked it. So I'm really happy for him because that's that's where he belongs. He I mean, he has a voice made for every cartoon, every commercial, everything. So I'm so glad he's finding success in that right now. And I oh, gosh. For so many reasons. I hope it continues. 

Brian [01:48:52] Yeah. Yeah. He's good. Hey, thanks again. 

DeLaney [01:48:59] You're so welcome. 

Brian [01:49:02] Thank you for listening to strangers, you know? If you're enjoying our conversations, please share us with a friend. Continue the conversation by sharing and liking on Facebook and social media, or for exclusive content and detailed show notes, visit our website at Strangers, you know, podcast XCOM where you can subscribe to our newsletter or make a donation to support the show. Thank you for your support.