Silence - On the Streets

KEY LINKS
NomadAlliance.org – Includes post-interview conversation with Kseniya

StrangersYouKnowPodcast.com – Includes additional photos, Additional Bonus conversation with Silence, Brian, and Kseniya that includes Silence talking about his given name and how he can track God’s love for him through a sequence of peanut-butter sandwiches.

FaceBook Community Page – Includes pre-interview setup video.

CONTENT WARNING: Sexual Abuse, Physical Abuse, Domestic Abuse, Drugs, Suicidal Ideation

Brian [00:01:33] Today's conversation is with a 31-year-old self-proclaimed country boy named Silence due in part to a heavy daily dosage of Ritalin by his mother. Silence was born at £1.7, pigeon-toed and with a lazy right eye and hole in his heart. For the last six years, Silence has survived on the streets of Salt Lake City. I had the privilege of meeting him through one of my previous conversations Kseniya. I asked her if she would do the honor of introducing silence. 

Kseniya [00:02:00] It's an honor to introduce Silent is one of the first friends, the Nomad Alliance, met on the street on Christmas Eve 2020. It wasn't until third grade when he skipped to fifth grade that people really realized that he was an autistic savant. He hasn't 187 IQ, and yet he has spent the last six years unhoused and broken. And we are so proud to say that Silence has been sober now for nine months. He is employed in construction and he finally believes in himself as much as we always have. When I met him, his hair was to the shoulder. He was peeking out from a pile of blankets. The homeless man sleeping on that sidewalk just down the street. 

Brian [00:02:42] Before jumping into my talk with silence, I need to give you a little more information. First, today's episodes contains all the trigger warnings. If you've had experience with domestic abuse, sexual assault, drugs and suicidal ideation, please proceed with caution. Second, this is an important enough conversation that I believe everyone needs to hear the entire story. In silence, his own words. Third, there is a lot of information about Silence that didn't make it into this episode. Cassini recorded a follow up interview with Silence in her car that shares his thoughts about our conversation that I would love everyone to hear. She has posted it on her organization's website at NomadAlliance.org. There is a separate, shorter conversation that I recorded with Silence and Kseniya, where he shares additional information about his namesake and how he tracked God's love for him through a series of peanut butter sandwiches. It's another story that you want to hear. I will post that interview separately on Facebook. On Our Strangers, you know, podcast community page. Next Silence posed for a Nomad Alli

Transcript

SYK 122 - Silence - On the Streets

NomadAlliance.org – Includes post-interview conversation with Kseniya

StrangersYouKnowPodcast.com – Includes additional photos, Additional Bonus conversation with Silence, Brian, and Kseniya that includes Silence talking about his given name and how he can track God’s love for him through a sequence of peanut-butter sandwiches.

FaceBook Community Page – Includes pre-interview setup video.

MUSIC

Silence [00:00:04] There were times on the street where I had been ganged up on and had my body and mind and soul broken by sticks and bats and knives. They couldn't stop getting into fights with these other angry and depressed individuals. You know, you have to beg for a little bit of change from my pocket and we'll still just look right past you like you don't exist. And so that had been the state that I had been in, you know, just being broken physically and mentally and spiritually, you know, because you have to carry everything that you own with you at all times. And even if you've constantly carried it throughout every single day and I mean, there's people that are good enough to pick your pockets while you sleep in and take the bag right out, literally right out from underneath your head. So those are the only people that I was able to connect with and bond with because they had gone through different trials in their lives and they had lost everything in their lives, just like I had no one except somebody that would smile on their face and spit on the back it when they turned around. And so, you know, and she saw me in this state was like, you know, you're still worth it. You're still beautiful. And no matter how many chances I need give you, like, I'll give you those chances if you just pick yourself up and try to say, bro. 

Brian [00:01:33] Today's conversation is with a 31-year-old self-proclaimed country boy named Silence due in part to a heavy daily dosage of Ritalin by his mother. Silence was born at £1.7, pigeon toed and with a lazy right eye and hole in his heart. For the last six years, Silence has survived on the streets of Salt Lake City. I had the privilege of meeting him through one of my previous conversations Kseniya. I asked her if she would do the honor of introducing silence. 

Kseniya [00:02:00] It's an honor to introduce Silent a one of the first friends, the Nomad Alliance, met on the street on Christmas Eve 2020. It wasn't until third grade when he skipped to fifth grade that people really realized that he was an autistic savant. He hasn't 187 IQ, and yet he has spent the last six years unhoused and broken. And we are so proud to say that Silence has been sober now for nine months. He is employed in construction and he finally believes in himself as much as we always have. When I met him, his hair was to the shoulder. He was peeking out from a pile of blankets. The homeless man sleeping on that sidewalk just down the street. 

Brian [00:02:42] Before jumping into my talk with silence, I need to give you a little more information. First, today's episodes contains all the trigger warnings. If you've had experience with domestic abuse, sexual assault, drugs and suicidal ideation, please proceed with caution. Second, this is an important enough conversation that I believe everyone needs to hear the entire story. In silence, his own words. Third, there is a lot of information about Silence that didn't make it into this episode. Cassini recorded a follow up interview with Silence in her car that shares his thoughts about our conversation that I would love everyone to hear. She has posted it on her organization's website at NomadAlliance.org. There is a separate, shorter conversation that I recorded with Silence and Kseniya, where he shares additional information about his namesake and how he tracked God's love for him through a series of peanut butter sandwiches. It's another story that you want to hear. I will post that interview separately on Facebook. On Our Strangers, you know, podcast community page. Next Silence posed for a Nomad Alliance calendar. Last year, he was Mr. July to see that picture, as well as current photos. Members can visit his episode page on strangers, you know, podcast scam or you can buy the calendar for a minimal donation on Nomad Alliance dot org. Stay tuned after the conversation for more information about Silence and his amazing photoshoot. Finally, at the end of this episode, I ask Ksenia to tell you more about her nonprofit organization and provide additional information about how you can provide much needed support to her all-volunteer organization. By the way, if you ever volunteer your time on Sunday to help with the Nomad Alliance, chances are you'll get to work alongside Silence, who currently wakes up at 430 each morning to bike and bus to work. After work, he completes 5 hours of therapy before returning to his residential treatment facility. Like many of us, he gets the weekend off regularly, donating 12 hours each Sunday so he can help others who are still struggling to survive the streets. All of the links I have mentioned above will also be in the show notes. Just tell us a little bit about you. 

MUSIC

Silence [00:04:36] First off, I guess I should start with, uh, you know, uh, the basics, I guess. A little bit. A little bit about my family life. I am the product of a six-foot-seven Irish mechanic and four foot 11 Native American stay at home mom. I have three older brothers from a separate father and one little sister through my same mom and dad and I was raised LDS in my parents choosing of religion. And I don't know, I'm a country boy. Okay. One of the things that, you know, defines me a little bit is that, you know, my father was fairly abusive and physically and my mother was abusive as well mentally. And so kind of like I know that my father loved me, you know, as much as a father can, which is rather deeply The only fault that he ever had was that he believed my mom over anything else in the world and necessarily some would consider that a fault. But she was a compulsive liar. So she would tell him things like, you know, they called me the B word or, you know, they didn't do their homework or, you know, they didn't do their chores or they broke dishes. And my father would come home and hearing these things. He would lay hands on us children because, you know, were the product of her and she created us. You know, she was prime. And so I know that my father loved me, but, uh, I would suppose that, you know, that would be considered a fault of his is that, you know, he, he believed my mother's word over anything else in the world. And so, you know, and one thing that he always told us was and he was a man that like build or fix anything, right? Like he was a mechanic, but he was also a carpenter and everything that we had in our lives. And were very, very poor. There were times where we would cut food stamps and bargain shop for 14 hours in a day to get have food for the month and things like that. There were times where he literally himself starved for several days at a time while us children were able to eat and he still got up sunrise and wouldn't stop whatever work and whatever task that he had to do until, you know, sometimes after the well after the sun went down. 

Brian [00:07:10] So it sounds like you have a lot of really strong but mixed emotions with your dad. I mean, you respect him for all that he provided for the family and all that he was willing to do. But on the other hand, that's the situation, isn't is it the best? And while something else may have triggered that, that's you know, that's his responsibility, too. So yeah, like, like most parents, they're mixed emotions, right? There are things that we understand that we love and there are things that we understand that we don't love. So yeah. 

Silence [00:07:35] And so, you know, and so one thing that he would always tell us, you know, even As he would go to lay into us. And at first you start with things like, you know, spanking and things like that, where he would have bend over and he had custom whittled this, you know, paddle for us, you know, with a groove down the middle of it and a couple of divots in the end. And he would tell us to bend over and touch our toes and, you know, and he would paddle us in as my brothers and I got older, you know, that eventually moved around from, you know, paddles and extra chores and duties and things like that to open hands, to close fists, to sometimes very cruel and unusual things such as like there was this one time where he had me dig this hole that was deeper than I could climb out of and wider than I could place the shovel. So I couldn't climb out. And I sat in that hole for three days and, you know, the closed fists moved to, you know, eventually, like, you know, stomping us while were on the ground. And we kind of like learned to laugh it off, right? You know what I mean? Like, as if we could laugh even while he was beating us. You know what I mean? Then. Then we could. We could prove that were strong enough, you know, that we are wills weren't being broken. And so, you know, we would laugh even as he kicked us while were on the ground, just show, you know, we're stronger than anything that you can throw at us and you're, you know, several times our size, you know. And so but one of the things that he always told us was, you know, one day we're going to we're going to have a farm and we'll have animals. And, you know, and we're going to grow on food and raise our own livestock. Right. And so as I grew. What? You know, went through and we rebuilt everything that we had from, you know, a garden with all manners of plants, sunflowers, pumpkins, green beans, tomatoes, peppers, squash, you know, snap peas, you know, corn, you know, and just pumpkins and all manner of, you know, different things. And there were times where deer would come through our yard and we raised and bred horses and we had chickens and we built our horse corrals and our chicken coops and our shared in. 

Brian [00:10:07] Where was this? Was this in. 

Silence [00:10:08] Utah? This was in Clarkston, Utah. Okay. It's this little, little podunk side town where one of the big events of the year is the Martin Harris pageant. It was renowned is one of the people that helped Joseph Smith translate, you know, the Book of Mormon and stuff. And so, you know, we had things like black and white days, which is a commemoration to cows and, you know, pioneer days. And we had, you know, chili cooking contests and, you know, root beer making contests and things like that. 

Brian [00:10:44] And so it sounds like you have some pretty fond memories. I mean, as bad as things got. It sounds like you have some pretty fond memories of your childhood as well. 

Silence [00:10:52] Yeah, there were times, you know, he was a mechanic that people would leave their vehicles and stuff at the shop. And so at different times, you know, we had four wheelers and snowmobiles. Went we I was born in San Bernardino, California. 

Brian [00:11:06] Okay. 

Silence [00:11:08] And so when I was little, we moved quite often. So went from Sam, San Bernardino to Barstow and Jarmo and Big Bear and things like that. And in California, skiing is, is a big thing instead of snowboarding like it is here. So we learned how to ski in Big Bear and in Barstow. We, we loaded up the back of the truck with, with this mesquite wood that we used to cook, cook barbecues for years afterwards. We had this big old Ford. And, you know, as went through, we moved from California to West Yellowstone, Montana. Right. Okay. So we moved from 120 in the shade at times and desert area where we had you know, we had this 300 gallon fish tank with scorpions and snakes and lizards and spiders. And we had these slides and we would let the different kinds of poisonous animals like battle each other. Right. And my mom was like, you know, how would you say like the government came in and was like, you know, because we had this cactus garden, right? And she had taken these rare endangered cactus species and like put them out in our yard and things, you know, and range them and stuff. And they're like, that's endangered. You can't do that. Like, you can't own those, you know. And so we moved from 120, sometimes in the shade to West Yellowstone, Montana, where we literally had a record 25 feet of snow and it was 50 below zero. And we had a beautiful log cabin. And then eventually from Montana, we moved here to Utah, you know, which is a place renowned for the fact that you can get, you know, frostbitten sunburn on the same day. Right. And so and so we had at different times, we had all manners of different kinds of vehicles and animals and things like that. 

Brian [00:13:11] So you mentioned a lot of places. Did you move? How often did you move when you were a kid? 

Silence [00:13:15] So in in my younger years, you know, probably one, two, seven, we moved about once every year. Okay. And then we stayed in Montana for two years. Okay. And then and then eventually we moved to Hiram and from Hiram we stayed there about a year and then we moved to Clarkston, which, you know, I was nine. 

Brian [00:13:37] Okay. When you moved there. 

Silence [00:13:38] From 9 to 16 before I went into foster care. Okay. Okay. And so did. 

Brian [00:13:44] You like moving? Was it a challenge or did you hate leaving your old home or was it just something you did? 

Silence [00:13:49] Well, I mean, when I was younger, it wasn't necessarily so much of a culture shock, if you will, because, you know, young ones, you know, just whatever is around them, they just kind of like incorporate, like, you know, that's what life is, you know? Oh, yeah, you know, it's winter. It's supposed to be cold outside. 

Brian [00:14:09] Must be 50 below zero. 

Silence [00:14:11] I'm not going to complain that it's cold outside, you know what I mean? I'm just going to actually wear my coat, like mom said, you know, kind of thing. And so children really accept their environment as, you know, just being the way that it is and in kind of like in a radical acceptance kind of thing. But as you grow old. Right. You, you long for, you know, retaining those kind of connections, right? Yeah. And so, you know, one of the biggest culture shock for me was going into foster care because not only was I losing my parents, one of the only things that was a constant and stable in my life, right? I got shipped from Cache Valley and all the way up here and to Salt Lake. And that's how I ended up coming into Salt Lake was in the foster system. And not only that, I was able to get my sister out of our parents. Quote, unquote, care. Right. But at the same time, went to foster system. They split us up. And so not only was I losing my mother and father, I was I lost my sister who I was trying to save. And they split us up. And so I was just like, well, that, you know, that plan didn't quite work, especially because she was only ten. So they were the courts were seeking for reunification. 

Brian [00:15:30] So you mentioned you were trying to get your sister out of that environment. Yes. 

Silence [00:15:34] And I did successfully. But obviously, you know, being such a young one and tied so close to my parents, they were the only thing that she knew. Yeah. You know, they were seeking for reunification, especially because, you know, she vocalized, you know, that she wanted to go back to them instead of being with random foster parents and yeah. Like that. And so yeah, I went, I went from Cache Valley and I got shipped up here to Salt Lake with a South American foster mom named Virginia. And so that was kind of an interesting experience. 

Brian [00:16:10] Tell me a little bit about that. Do you remember what we felt like? So let me just preface this by saying my tagline for my podcast is honest, vulnerable and brave conversations. I'm going to ask you conversation. I'm going to ask you questions. If you feel uncomfortable with any of them, say, I'd rather not answer that. 

Silence [00:16:25] No. 

Brian [00:16:25] Yeah, or take a minute, but I don't want to push you into anything that's uncomfortable. 

Silence [00:16:29] No. Yeah, I'm an open book, but I. 

Brian [00:16:31] I appreciate that. But just know that you're more than welcome to say. You know what? I'd rather not talk about that today, so let me know if I don't want to put you someplace uncomfortable, put you on the spot. But I'm kind of curious is when you went into foster care, if you remember what that adjustment was like, I mean, you're leaving the situation that you were trying to get your sister out of. So you knew this wasn't a good situation. You got yourself out of it. You got your sister out of it, and now you're in Salt Lake with a strange person that is your foster mom. Can you remember any of those? 

Silence [00:17:02] And so I guess initially how I happened to be is initially went into my older eldest brother's care. Right. 

Brian [00:17:09] And how much older is he? 

Silence [00:17:11] He is. Let's see. So he's nine years older. 

Brian [00:17:15] Okay. So he had been what, like 25. Yeah. Okay. 

Silence [00:17:19] Yeah, 25. 26. Okay. And he had, he had ditched the Navy so that when his youngest son was born, so that he could be a father to his son, he went able with the military to be in his son's life. And so went we initially went into his care and he was an RV salesman and was paid by, you know, commission and commission based. And so, you know, and he had a company truck and a gas card and things like that. But because going to court and therapy and things like with my sister it it you know struck his job pretty hard, taking time to be away from being a salesman. Right. 

Brian [00:18:08] And you're paid on commission and you get paid when you close a deal and you're not there. So you're not close in as many deals. 

Silence [00:18:14] And so yeah, he got demoted at his job and because he was, he was trying to do the best for us. Right. And, and he didn't know whether to be a father, a brother or a friend to me, you know, because he's my oldest brother. But, you know, suddenly he's in a guardianship role. Yeah. And so that was fairly complicated, especially because coming out of my parents care, like I was just starting to realize like the impact that my parents had upon my life psychologically and, and I kind of like started cutting and especially because, you know, going to courts and things like that to, you know, seek to prove the damage that my parents had done to us. You know, he got demoted in his job and he lost the truck and the gas card and went into a lower salesman's position. And, you know, just because he was taking, you know, these individuals he was caring for out of his own kindness, in his own blood, back to visits and things with people that he could not stand. Yeah. You know, and so that's really when, when my sister and I got set. Because, you know, he couldn't do it anymore. And so that's when I, you know, my sister and I went to foster care and we got split up. And so and she went to a foster family. And in the process of being reunified with my parents and so in, in the end, like my goal of saving my little sister wasn't realized. Yeah. And I wasn't able to. 

Brian [00:19:54] But you're 16, you know? I mean, come on, how much of that should have been on your shoulders and how much? You know, I mean, you can't blame yourself for that, right? But I mean, you're do you did more at 16 than most people would do for their brothers and sisters. And you have no way of knowing how it's going to turn out at 16. You know, the court systems inside and out in the foster know, you just know this was a bad situation. You got to do something. Yeah. And you tried and it worked almost. And then the result of that is like, well, if that's not working, if we can't place you with a family member, then. 

Silence [00:20:21] And so, you know, I was just. I was just kind of lost, right? Cause, yeah, when I moved into my brother's house is the first time that I had ever had any kind of freedom in my life. Right. And so I started to experience things like going to the store on my own. And, you know, he gave us an allowance. So I was able to, you know, go out to fast food like, you know, I never had before, you know, because were so poor that, you know, when it came to holidays, everything was on point. We had anything that you could think of during the holidays, but that was because we didn't go out to eat ever. Like, Ah, our birthday meals were like, you know, buffets at like the Golden Corral and things like that, you know? And so, you know, when it comes to holidays, you know, it was really rich. And when it came to home cooked meals, my mom would go home cooked meals every night. And there was we always had a variety of food, you know, with every kind of, you know, vegetables, a meat, a starch, a vegetable, you know, and, you know, and different meals every weekend. Like one weekend it would be pizza and one weekend it would be Chinese, and one weekend it would be barbecue. And one weekend it would be chicken, broccoli, bread, casserole, you know. And so every weekend we would kind of mix it up from the usual dishes, which was, you know, were kind of like a steak and taters family, you know. Yeah. And pasta and vegetables and so, you know, but on the weekends, you know, every weekend we would do a different kind of dish. And my mom would make it all herself. You know, we didn't order it from any store or have it pre-made or any. Right. Right. Were we, we knew how to make our bread from scratch. You know, we knew how to make mayonnaise. You know, it's oil and egg whites. We had to weigh it. 

Brian [00:22:10] It's got a really tough recipe. 

Silence [00:22:12] Yeah. You know, and so, you know, we knew how to make our own root beer and, you know, things like, you know, hunting, hunting deer and turning them into a backpack and wearing them over a mountain back to be able to turn their and turn their skin into a pair of welding chaps for my dad and have good venison for a while and deer jerky and, you know, and we used all parts of the animal and you know, and just very kind of like, you know, very native like my mom. And so and we did holistic healing, you know what I'm saying? Like our cure for the flu or, you know, for pneumonia was chicken noodle soup and some tea and, you know, some Vicks VapoRub or something, you know, some menthol and some licorice. You know, it was and, you know, as it turns out, those things are actually like very effective, you know, licorice. She goes into the NyQuil and the DayQuil and menthol is good for everything. And, you know, and you get some good hearty broth and some chicken bone, you know, kind of stuff going on. And yeah, you're going to recover because your body has the nutrients that it needs to do so. And so, you know, some honey and lemon tea and then bada bing boom, you know, we stayed sick less, less time than any other kid, you know, and we only got sick maybe, you know, once a year if that and, you know, once every three years, sometimes. 

Brian [00:23:39] You remember going to the doctors are going to the emergency room or anything for that like that or not. Just never. 

Silence [00:23:44] Just no, not really. No. 

Brian [00:23:46] Just taken care of. And yeah, you do your best at home rubs, rub a little dirt on it and you'll be all right. 

Silence [00:23:50] Yeah, that would be like, why am I going to try and pay you five grand for the doctor you tell you to, like, wrap your broken rib, right? Yeah. Like it's. 

Brian [00:23:57] Yeah, you can't heal a broken. Yeah, yeah. 

Silence [00:23:58] It's going to it's yeah. We don't need that medical advice. It's, it's common sense anyway. Yeah. You know, kind of thing. And then my mom, you know, she knew how to, how to sew, so she knew how to stitch ups. And so, you know, and so she knew all the things that was needed to technically be a, you know, a medical doctor. And so, yeah, it's just one of those things that, like every man, woman and child knew, you know, women, women and men knew how to patch their clothing and. For their food and in what to eat and what not to eat and knew how to survive off the land. That was something that every man, woman and child knew and would pass on to their next generation. How to fish, how to track animals, how to, you know, survive in any given situation. And so that's what we learned, you know, the old ways, you know, traditional, traditional methods. 

Brian [00:24:53] Did you have any interaction with your grandparents on either side? 

Silence [00:24:58] Yeah, I'm my mom's side. Okay. But she was adopted. And that's kind of how we became elders. Is that the family that adopted my mother from reservation was LDS. And so that's, you know, my father married. Married into her religion and she married into my father's name. And that's kind of interesting. 

Brian [00:25:23] Yeah, that's interesting. I like the way he said that. 

Silence [00:25:26] And so yeah. Yeah. That's that's how I, how I came to be in Salt Lake. I was in the foster care system. 

Brian [00:25:34] So when you were there, your first little while in the foster care system, did you feel like this was an improvement for yourself or was this a step backwards? 

Silence [00:25:43] Oh, yeah, it was. It was definitely an improvement. Okay. I mean, I was with my oldest brother who I admired and respect. 

Brian [00:25:49] But when you moved to Salt Lake with the foster care that Barb did, you're like, oh, what have I done now? Now I've made things worse? Or is this actually better. 

Silence [00:25:56] Than I mean, I was completely, you know, like, flabbergasted, really. I was speechless because, you know, The way that, you know, you live in Cash Valley and even here in Salt Lake is kind of like a small town mentality, right? Like everybody knows everybody and everybody knows everybody's business kind of thing. Yeah. And so, you know, everybody is real tight knit, you know, and I'm saying, like, you, you, you invite your friends and your family and also your neighbors to any given event at any time. And so that's just how life is in the country and of country folk, you know, everything is really tight knit. And so, you know, coming to the city where there isn't as much nature and there isn't as many animals besides, you know, major early dogs and cats. And everything is just kind of like very large and square and gray is like, you know, fairly depressing in some ways. You know, when you when you grow up with fresh air and the open. 

Brian [00:27:02] Fields and. 

Silence [00:27:03] Vibrance of plant colors and you're able to go into your yard and you're able to pick your own food from soil that you've grown, you know, from your own hands, you know, and you reduce to shopping for food stuffs that are inside plastic containers and things like that is, is different than doing your own canning and you know, and being able to sample the food that you've grown with your own blood, sweat and tears. Yeah. 

Brian [00:27:33] So were you like close to downtown where there's it's mostly sidewalks and everything's paved or where you. 

Silence [00:27:39] I was in West Jordan. Okay. Initially, I moved to West Jordan and then with, uh, with uh, Brazil or Portuguese foster mom. And, and then I went from after about three quarters of a year with her, decided that she was going to foster younger, younger children instead of teens, almost adults. 

Brian [00:28:07] So were there other foster children in the house when you got there? 

Silence [00:28:10] No, it was just her and her boyfriend lived her boyfriend slash husband. I'm not exactly sure what the definition of their relationship was. I think they were going to get married eventually, but he had yet to make enough in his own standing, I guess. Okay. To be able to like, you know, solidify the relationship. And so that was part of how she, you know, made her own income. I was caring for four foster children. 

Brian [00:28:40] And it when you were the only one at the start. 

Silence [00:28:42] So it was me. And she had her daughter there. Okay. And so I'm this 17, you know, almost 18 year old that like, I'm almost, you know, an adult. And she's like, you know, I would rather have younger children that, you know, my daughter can play with. Okay. For my foster children. Okay. 

Brian [00:29:06] And how old was her daughter? 

Silence [00:29:08] I think she was six or seven. 

Brian [00:29:12] Oh, okay. So quite a bit younger. 

Silence [00:29:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, uh, let's see. And so I moved from, from West Jordan to Sandy with, with a couple that was fairly well off and they kind of like had children that were. Just a little bit older of their own than I was. They had a 22 year old daughter that was staying there. And I became 18 there. And I still needed some help completing high school and things like that. So I stayed in it for a year there in Sandy. But they also had a young man who, who was homosexual and they had a Korean foreign exchange student as foster children, along with their own 22 year old daughter. And so did you get. 

Brian [00:30:00] Along with most of them? 

Silence [00:30:01] Yeah. Yeah. Especially song. He was he was the Korean foreign exchange student. Okay. I got along with him because I was kind of like, you know, I liked video games and anime and things like that. And, you know, obviously he's like some sort of Asian, right? And so like and also, you know, their Asian cultures have really a mastery of the human body and, you know, or set in specific cultural ways. Right. And so but they generally have quite an amount of respect throughout the entire culture, right? Where Americans are kind of like iPods and sometimes lazy and not motivated, like they have real, real structure and whatever cultures are. And so I could respect that, you know, coming from, you know, ancient lines, you know, or traditional, you know, cultural backgrounds, you know, some, some cultures that had been around for thousands and thousands of years and, you know, found the best way to do things in and kind of like retain those throughout their the entirety of technological advance. Right. And so I had respect for him and then the other foster father's foster student was like homosexual in in his preference. And he worked at Southtown Mall. And what he did for a living was smell men's armpits and a coordinate a fragrance that complimented their natural body scent. 

Brian [00:31:41] And so I heard of that job. 

Silence [00:31:42] I thought that was kind of weird, but, you know, that's what he did. And then he had this locker full of, like, you know, five grand of different kinds of samplers in and hundreds of dollars of bottles of cologne and things like that. And, you know, I'm just getting into manhood and I want to smell good and right. And he liked video games and his game was dance, dance revolution. Right. And so I was like, I'm a video game fanatic because video games allowed me to get out of my head and submersed myself into other worlds and storylines and kind of escape reality for a little bit. And so, you know, it became one of my goals in life to, like, beat the gay kids to his own game, right? And so he would dance, dance it off, you know, and eventually I got so good, so much better than him that he, like, quit playing video games altogether. And it was like I was like, I beat him at his own game finally. But then he started playing video games to shame. But yeah, yeah. It's this experience of, of, you know, moving from, from high school to high school with my older brother and then coming here and still not having completed high school because of my court appointments and moving different towns and cities and locations and things like that. You know, I had I catch up on and just get my GED and so my high school diploma. 

Brian [00:33:16] Did you like school and. 

Silence [00:33:18] Yeah. Okay. Well, yes and no. You know, I, I felt like a lot of kids do that. You know, a lot of the material that you're required to learn isn't useful. And, and till you find out, you know, later that it actually is some of it. Yeah. You know, trigonometry I mean, you know, a good, you know, I would say at least 60%, you know, good, good 40% is just fairly useless. Um, and then, you know, a good, a good 60% is, you know, as, as you get older, you know, you're like, okay, now I understand that. And that actually would have been interesting if I would have. 

Brian [00:33:57] Been paying. 

Silence [00:33:57] Attention, but I applied myself, you know, and so and a. 

Brian [00:34:01] Lot of it comes down, I think, to the teacher, too. I mean, you can have a teacher make any subject interesting or any subject boring. It just depends. I mean, the kids struggle anyway, but if you have a really good teacher, they can pretty much get the kids interested in anything. And it's just hard to get that many good teacher for what people are willing to pay them, you know. Yeah. So yeah, fair enough. 

Silence [00:34:19] And typically I had, I had fairly good teachers. 

Brian [00:34:23] Okay, good. 

Silence [00:34:23] And so I coming into foster care and losing all my friends and, and my family and. 

Brian [00:34:29] Changing schools and losing your friends again. And yeah. 

Silence [00:34:32] Yeah. And just everything was just like and then I came to the city where, you know, everybody's not connected and everybody's a stranger and, you know, and I'm supposed to be like, growing into this, my own man, right? And then aging out of the foster system and getting my own place and a job and things like that, which I had been unable to do, you know, previously in my life, because of moving from different home to different home. 

Brian [00:34:59] So you graduate. So your senior year in high school, you say you didn't graduate your senior year. So your senior year ended. Everybody was going to school with they graduated and moved on to whatever they're doing. Yeah. You stuck around to get your GED. You were still living with your foster parents at the time. 

Silence [00:35:14] Well, I. I went from being in a regular high school to an alternative hire while I was in my oldest brother's care because of the situation. Like, I had to be, you know, I had to I required an extra year. Okay. Right. So I had to become a super senior or as some people would say, a stupid senior. Okay. 

Brian [00:35:34] So you were at an alternate school the whole time when you were transferring with your both your foster parents. 

Silence [00:35:39] With my oldest brother. And then when I moved to Salt Lake City, I still hadn't graduated yet because of how things turned out. And so I had to when I was fully in foster care and I, I had moved, you know, here to Salt Lake. I had to go to an adult high school. 

Brian [00:35:56] Okay. 

Silence [00:35:57] Where nobody knew really anybody else. Yeah. And the age ranges ranged from anywhere between, you know, 17 to, you know, 37 years old, right? 

Brian [00:36:09] Yeah. 

Silence [00:36:09] And so that's where I got my G.E.D. was at this a dot high school or a night school. 

Brian [00:36:16] Okay, so you, you turn 18, you leave the foster care system, you leave your foster family, you go to try to find a job at an apartment. Tell me, what were you thinking at the time? Where would you where did you want to go? What would what did you what did the future look like to you at that point? 

Silence [00:36:31] Well, you know, at that point, I was just like, what do I do? You know what I mean? Because suddenly, like, I don't have my parents or the foster system or connection with anybody, but just a couple of friends, right? Yeah. And so, you know, and I had gotten let go from a job because, you know, after I lost, you know, my foster home and things like that, like my work history, my, you know, showing up to work, you know, suffered a little bit, you know, being able to not have rides to work and consistent transportation, trying to suddenly figure out how am I going to get to where I need to go. Right. Yeah. And, you know, I didn't have money saved up to be able to and I don't know the bus system or anything like that. And so, you know, I was late several times to work and got let go and, you know, and suddenly I'm just like, I have no support. 

Brian [00:37:34] Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. You're out of the foster care system and completely on your own. Good luck. And it's an it sounds like most of the societal direction that they give you. You never had access to that. So you graduate from high school with your high school class and you go to college or you go on a mission or you go join the military or you get a job that wasn't there because you were in the GED system where you were just getting that with so many different people there, there really wasn't a one path for you to follow. And then that ends and you're like, Okay, now what? So that's why I was asking your question. What was your mental state at the time? What were you thinking as like, okay, so what's the next step in life? Because up until that point, most of the people that go through traditional education that's already laid out for them. Yeah. And there's somebody there to help them and support them along the way. You didn't have that laid out. You didn't have that support. All of a sudden that support was gone and you were like, Well, good luck to your kid. 

Silence [00:38:28] Yeah. So I ended up moving in with, with another, another Korean foreign exchange student, actually, that I had become friends with through my foster brother. Okay. And they knew each other. And so I moved in with him and I was on 44 South these apartments. 

Brian [00:38:49] That were on 45th. 

Silence [00:38:51] 44, the ninth, ninth East. 

Brian [00:38:52] Yeah. Okay, I know where that is. 

Silence [00:38:54] And, and so I ended up moving there. And, you know, one of the big things in his family and things like that was soccer. And another thing, one of the reasons why he moved to America was weed. And so, you know, being out of the foster system and not having to tear up and things like that. And, you know, I was like, okay, you know what I mean? Like, and so that was kind of like, you know, one of my larger introductions into marijuana and I'd smoked it before and whatnot. And, and I liked. It. And you know and so, you know, that was just like the thing to do was, you know, you smoke a little bit of weed when you wake up and you go to work sober. And, you know, by the time you get ready, a couple hours has passed, you know, as you shower and things like that and you sober up and you go to work sober and you work whatever, whatever, you know, residual is, is in your system, out of your system with a hard day's work in and you come back in to wind down for the night, you know, here you take a couple of puffs and then you sleep real nice. You know, you get the munchies, you have some dinner and you go to sleep. And so that was kind of like the cycle that I got into right away. I met this cute little girl, you know, that turned into, uh, that turned into a six year relationship. I went through the traditional avenues, and I ask her father and her mother if I could dater. And, you know, I was a rather shy, shy individual. I hadn't, you know, had very many girlfriends and things like that that point. And so it took, uh, you know, two weeks before our first kiss and she just kind of like threw herself on me, you know, because, like, we, we'd gotten together through. Through smoking weed and playing video games and so she kissed me first, you know, because I was like, wouldn't make a move on a girl, you know what I mean? That would be inappropriate, you know, and insane. And so, like, in my experience, you know, with women, I, I forced them to make the first move. And, you know, if they feel like I'm too slow about it or something like that, like, you know, then you know, that's not needed or whatever. And so, you know, I would go in the traditional, like, you know, I have to go on a date with you five times before, you know, we have some sort of intimate experience because I mean. 

Brian [00:41:13] I mean, honestly, until that point, what had you what were your opportunities to even talk about that or learn from that from a credible source? 

Silence [00:41:20] You know what I mean? 

Brian [00:41:21] Like zilch. Yeah. I mean, it was just you're on your own with that, too, right? There's no talk about consent. There's no talk about relationships. There's no. And so it's like, well, good luck get you know, it's. 

Silence [00:41:32] Yeah kind of thing, you know. And we didn't have, you know, I didn't have, you know, a father or mother to bounce things off of any more. And, you know, my, my, you know, my guardians were kind of like, you know, more like authority figures, right? Right. Instead of instead of, you know, you know, someone to guide you or to teach you or to mentor you. Yeah, they were kind of like authority figures. They were like, you know what I mean? Like, my foster parents were kind of like, you know, cops that were getting paid, you know, to. 

Brian [00:42:04] Have their wardens. 

Silence [00:42:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Brian [00:42:07] And so the only, the only guidance you get is, isn't through a credible source. It's through people that your own age that don't know what they're talking about either or the movies. Yeah. You know, I mean that's, that's which, you know, in the back of your head, it's like, that's not right. But I don't know what is right. And that's that closest approximation that we have. So. 

Silence [00:42:25] Okay. So, you know, I had my, my traditional teachings and, you know, kind of like my father learned from his grandfather. And some of my methods were kind of like old school, you know what I'm saying? But I'm glad to have retained those, especially in these kind of like, like your finger in the scroll kind of days. And, you know, I'm, uh, I'm a little bit conservative, so I got into this relationship and, you know, and it turned out to be a six year relationship. So from 1824, I was with this girl and were, you know, eventually we initially moved into her parents place together for a little while. Well, you know, I, I got stable and a taste of what a relationship was like. And, you know, and so was. 

Brian [00:43:12] This like your first serious relationship then? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

Silence [00:43:15] You know, and so, you know, come two years, you know, I was considering of marrying into her religion. And she was Catholic. She was a complicated mix of she was half Navajo from her mother and her father was Japanese and Hispanic. And so she came from kind of like, you know, you know, a mixing of cultures as well, you know, and so like. 

Brian [00:43:44] So had Mormonism played much in your life up until this point? I mean, you said you marry into her religion, but I was just curious how much your previous religious background was still with you. 

Silence [00:43:53] So how I got out of being LDS was when I was a boy, when I was a young boy, we got into Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America. Right. And I had almost a t achieved my Eagles badge, okay. By the time I went into foster care. But one of the things that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America did was called Baptisms for the Dead. You know, it kind of tied in with the religion. And so what we did was baptisms for the dead. And so we came here to Salt Lake, to the temple and. And what we learned was that these Mormons, these LDS individuals were doing was they were taking. They were looking up the records of the dead. And they were using us children. The innocence of youth to baptize these individuals who had passed into their religion. Right. And I had this terrible spiritual experience where, you know, I was a young boy in a full weight suit. And they read this name and dunked me under the water to baptize this soul and to their religion. And I had a spiritual experience where every time they don't be under the water, I was able to hear the voice of that individual, their spirit, speak to me like you're pulling me away from what I know of heaven. You're taking me away from my family. And it was a different room like language in a different section of heaven. But, like, I understood it, right? Yeah. And then they would pull me up and then. And then we'd another name. And then we don't mean I could just hear another voice, you know what I mean? Speaking to me like the same kind of thing. Like. Like you're. You're taking me away from my family. This isn't what I want in and pull up and dunk again. And another name gets baptized. Another soul has passed through my body that I can hear. And it was just like a terrible, shocking experience. I can imagine not only initially learned that I was a psychic medium, but also that they were using my soul to baptize other souls into their religion, that they were stealing sores from their belief systems, from their land, from their culture, from their families and stealing their spirits into the religion. So that kind of, like, made me, you know, shunning. You know, I was like, that's not right. That's yeah, that's definitely, you know, not wholly. And I don't believe in that. And so that's kind of like made me start to search for, for something spiritually at the same time as, you know, physically, I had lost everything that I had known previously. Okay? So the only thing that really I retained was, you know, my want to be with nature and my connection with the land. And so, you know, my. 

Brian [00:46:50] So that was your version of spirituality from that point on became more about being with the land being with nature. 

Silence [00:46:56] Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, everybody was getting on these different kinds of prescription medications for whatever mental ailment they had. And I'm just like, go outside, you know, me, like get, get a nature kind of thing, like these gray buildings and these square, gray, ugly things like are not healthy for you. I know, because, like, I frickin used to live in the land grow my own food. And then, you know, it was a happy experience. And then you just come here where, you know, everybody's rushing, kind of like everywhere or they're lazily putting along and they're just, like, all kind of like, saggy shouldered. And they don't say hi to people, and you ask somebody for directions and they pretend like they can't hear you and you know, and ignore you and things like that. And, you know, and then you kind of slump shouldered in and just dressed from being overworked, you know, and they don't know how to just relax and, you know, enjoy themselves without, you know, getting drunk or getting high, you know. And so that's kind of like what I initially experienced was like one of the ways that, you know, coming to the city was that you're able to relax was smoking some weed, you know, or, you know, having a bar night, you know what I mean? Not like, you know, most high school, you know, or young children don't experience that. But, you know, that carries into, uh, you know, the adult culture, you know what I mean? Just people tend to feel like that's a reason for shame and hide it, especially if they have more and more traumatic or, you know, negative experiences. And so they close off, you know, from, you know, that part of themselves, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, don't let anybody else, including, you know, the people that I work with to accomplish cause like that I smoke weed or, you know, drinking is acceptable. But, you know, you know, if you have to have a couple of bad bar nights, then you're more likely to be locked up in than given an actual talking to by somebody that notices and cares about, you know. And so, you know, that was kind of like this, this whole like social, cultural and reality shift union. I mean, and so I was like disconnected from all this. So I focused all my intention into this relationship. Then I was like, you know, I'm with this girl, and she's half native and I. I'm half native. And so that's an intimate understanding we have. Is this how to survive off the land? And that's the old ways and that's the good ways. And, you know. You know, and Hispanic people have great respect for their own individuals. And, you know, her Asian side. I'm like, I have respect for those people. They have they have lessons that are thousands of years old. They have learned from and still live by. And so I was like, this is a good woman. And so we had a six year relationship and a beautiful baby girl. And unfortunately, I ended up losing them to a drunk driver. They were they were going to Brigham City. They were traveling through starting Canyon. And I lost them both. 

Brian [00:50:20] I'm sorry. 

Silence [00:50:21] And so that's kind of like when I, I got into methamphetamines. And, you know, it took me a couple of years to lose everything that I had built, you know, with her and for my daughter. And, you know, it took two or three years to lose everything that I had and had known in my entire adult life. And I just, you know, I felt like with my aggressive metabolism and, you know, some hardcore uppers that my body would eat itself. And I was fairly committed to, you know, society and eventually hopefully being able to rejoin my family in heaven, you know. And so I know, like, you know, if it's a slow process, then, you know, isn't necessarily committed suicide. Um, and, uh, that was my reasoning and logic behind it. And then, you know, I started doing meth like more and weed less and, you know, and I lost my jobs and, and my apartment and, and, you know, and eventually became homeless. And that lasted, you know, for the last five, five, six years of my life. And I gained 22 incarcerated stays and a total of 39 or 40 charges being homeless. And, uh, and that's, that's all kind of like I, uh, you know, that I got onto probation for a couple of aggravated assaults and I realized that, you know, not the, the potential was that necessarily I wasn't going to commit suicide or successfully because I had tried several times and not successfully completed suicide. But the fact came down to the to this thing that I realized that either my life, my girlfriend's life at the time or somebody else was going to lose their life because I was in such a state of mind, body and soul. And that's what, you know, motivated me towards finally picking back up the pieces of all of the families that I had lost, my childhood family, my foster families, my circle of friends, my you know, my own family. And I had run with my family for a while and, you know, and I had lost every single family that I had ever made. But I was like, you know, regardless, like, somebody is going to lose their life because, you know, of this sad state of my soul, because, you know, I was angry and depressed and suicidal and, you know, I couldn't count on myself for any kind of consistency anymore. And so that's what motivated me to pick back up, trying to get my life back together. Was that somebody including and or my own life was going to be taken. So, yeah. Yeah. 

Brian [00:53:35] And then so how long ago was that? 

Silence [00:53:38] So that was my last charge. And second probation violation was in March of this year. And so now I've been I been clean in, I went through residential rehab and complete debt and now I'm in sober living. And so I've got a job and a place and then my I.D. and I'm working on getting my license for the first time in my life, something that I was never able to get going through with the different families and changes and stages in my life, I was never able to obtain my license, even though I knew how to drive variety of vehicles. And so yeah, yeah, this is kind of really my first chance to establish my own credit. My role is done. Word of mouth to. Obtain a place in cash. And so right now is the first time in my life where I'm going to be able to get my license and establish my own credit. And if I can just be a man, a good man, a man that's true to his word and true to his deed for, you know, a year or two. Then I can successfully complete rehabilitation and my requirements for probation and be able to have a new start for myself and be able to have a chance at, you know, making life my own family again. And in the process, you know, I have to, you know, remind myself what it took and what it cost to be in and around my street family and what that feeling was like. And so people like Ksenia from the Nomad Alliance who recognized my potential for good, you know, even though I was angry and suicidal and possibly homicidal because of the trauma that I had been through on the streets, you know, individuals like her, you know, recognized me and saw that, you know, I could restructure myself and pick myself up and have the potential to be, you know, not only a good man, but someone that can be motivational for the change in individuals and could be a leader having gone through those experiences. And so she came by and expressed that, you know, I looked like a beautiful individual and that I had a striking resemblance to the good son himself. She's like, you look like Jesus. I got to take a picture of you. It was it was coincidentally Christmas Eve when I first met her and she was like, let me get you clothes. Like you shouldn't be freezing on the sidewalk. Like, what do you need? You know, and I needed everything. I needed hygiene. I needed clothes, I needed, you know, comfort. I needed someone that I could talk to, someone that would believe in me and someone that could possibly get me a tent and an I.D. and a license and a backpack and fucking shoes and everything. Everything that you could need. You know what I mean? Because I had lost everything over and over again, you know, being homeless. And she was like, look, I can get you whatever you need. But, you know, initially what she gave me was a belief that regardless of what I gone through and regardless of my torn and dirty clothes and regardless of the fact that, like I had, I had dug through a garbage can, you know? And I mean, like, you know, just an hour before, because I had starved myself for days because I was strung out on mess, you know, they mean that I was worthy of a good meal and that I was worthy of taking a picture of that, that she saw me as a beautiful individual and she saw me help a few people. And that's what she does, you know, and she helps people. And so she saw some kind of likeness in me as someone that has started this movement towards helping these individuals. You know, and she saw that I had the potential to be a lot like her, you know, put together and a mover and a doer and a beautiful person. And she just, like, came over and was like, you know, let's take a picture of you because no matter how dirty you are, my hair was all, you know, unwashed in everywhere. And, you know, I stunk in and everything. She's like, let's take a picture of you. Because regardless of what you gone through, no matter how you feel about yourself, you're a beautiful person that is worth it. And she, you know, kept coming back and helping me with resources. And it was like, I know you can do it if you just want to live. You know what I mean? If you want to change your life, I know you can do it. And she tried again and again to give me chance after chance. And initially, I took advantage of that. And eventually, you know, I mean, like it paid off, you know, just having someone to believe in me, you know, even though I was broken and angry and sad and just worthless and the rest of the world's eyes. So believe me, look, you're beautiful and you're worth it. And I can do as much as I can to save you. But you have to want to see yourself and know. 

Brian [00:58:56] Wow is an amazing story and proud of you and. 

Silence [00:59:00] Think. 

Brian [00:59:01] I serious. I don't mean that to sound demeaning at all. I mean, that is just an amazing that is a lot of trial and a lot of trauma to overcome with very few resources or help to be able to do that and to not only hit rock bottom, but be dragged along that for as long as that was. Yeah. 

Silence [00:59:20] There were times on the street where, where I had been ganged up on and had my body and mind and soul broken by sticks and bats and. Knives and I had been curved stone 17 times. I had a crowbar sunk into my skull and four broken ribs. And another time I was overdosed on fentanyl and I was raped several times. Literally, they overdosed me and raped me and I bled for a week. And each time and I had my body broken over and over again because I couldn't stop getting into fights with these other angry and depressed individuals, you know, these gangsters and these other broken souls, you know? And, you know, and if you didn't have your fix, if you didn't have a choice, you know, you became discontent because you were just broken, lonely, tired and hungry in saw from sleeping on the sidewalk over and over again and constantly in a state of being told you're not good enough and you're not good enough to feed. You're not good enough to clothe. You're not good enough to even look at. And so we're just going to see your pain in work and we're going to just walk on by. We're going to even if you shout at the top of your lungs that you need help, you know? And I mean, like, we're not going to help you. You know, you have to beg for a little bit a chain from my pocket, and we'll still just look right past you like you don't exist. And so that had been the state that I had been in, you know, just being broken physically and mentally and spiritually to the point where, you know, there were times where I ate out of garbage cans. There were times where, you know, constantly I was, you know, dirty from head toe. And my feet stunk and my clothing was torn or old or too big or too small. And I had been wearing it for weeks at a time. And I was, you know, snipe hunting, which is searching for portions of cigarettes that individuals had thrown away in the ashtrays. And, you know, we would dumpster dove and we would we'd try to find things to kick off for our drug, you know, and, you know, try to find some material that was able to be salvaged and used because we had nothing and needed everything, especially a way to carry our clothes. And so I was constantly carrying, you know, a £60 duffle bag on one arm and two backpacks on my back and another bag possibly in the other hand or slung over one shoulder, you know. And so you have this, you know, because you have to carry everything that you own with you at all times. And even if you've constantly carried it throughout every single day, you know, I mean, there's people that are good enough to pick your pockets while you sleep in and take the bag right out, literally right out from underneath your head, because, you know, they want to take whatever, whatever little amount that you have and constantly steal from each other and belittle each other. And, you know, there were times where, you know, even people that I thought were close to me had tried to sell me secretly to, you know, these people that were rapists and people that had been in prison and had destroyed everything else in their life. And so one of the ways that they tried to dominate people was to, you know, sexually dominate them, you know what I mean? That they would go through and they would it would rape and pillage and plunder and keep you addicted and plot against you and sell you out. And, you know, all of these just the worst of humanity. And that was the only people that I even was able to talk to, because they felt the same way that I did and in some ways inside or darker, you know what I mean? And so those were the only people that I was able to connect with and bond with because they had gone through different trials in their lives and they had lost everything in their lives, just like I had no one except somebody that would smile on their face and spit on the back. It turned around. And so, you know, and she saw me in this state was like, you know, you're still worth it. You're still beautiful. And no matter how many chances I need give you, like, I'll give you those chances if you just pick yourself up and try to see. April. 

Brian [01:04:05] You mentioned at first that you took advantage of that and you met her in December and you had started to make your turn around in March. Well, so I'm. 

Silence [01:04:14] That would be that would be December two. 

Brian [01:04:16] Years ago. Okay. So a year and a half before you made your most recent turnaround. 

Silence [01:04:21] Yeah, she, she, were, went to different workshops and things like that and she continued. You come around with supply drives and donate food and clothing and tents and sleeping bags and backpacks and hygiene products, and then home cook food and ingest and help people move their belongings over and over again during abatements. And, you know, her and other individuals, you know, who are jobs and lives and families were donating their only free time and taking away time from their own children to give us these resources. You know, they were taking time out of their and their lives and their family's lives, too. And food from their own pockets and money from their own pockets to be able to just, you know, see that this struggle is real and cared about it and, you know, didn't want to see those, like, you know, those commercials, you know, I mean, like you see these commercials of these skinny, frail, you know, unfed animals, you know what I mean? And you're just like, oh, my God. Like, how can somebody do that to animal? But she and, you know, they realized that, you know, people were doing this to other people. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And were those skinny bones sticking out, you know, unclothed, half naked, you know, you know, just wounded individuals. And, you know, they took the time out of their own lives to, you know, care for us, you know? And so it took, you know, several years for me to be able to, like, try and work up enough of, you know, I'll give a crap about myself to be able to, like, finally put my foot down and be like, look, you know, I'm not going to be somebody that takes away from somebody else's life because someone believes that I have something to be able to give back. And so, you know, that's eventually what I did. But it took months and months of her, you know, taking me to self-defense courses and giving me packets of CBD and vitamins. And just ten after tent that got stolen and got given away and got sold. And, you know, and in, you know, initially, you know, I took advantage of that. And there were clothes and stuff that, you know, some of them I would give away to other people that needed them. And, you know, and some of them, you know, I would keep even though they were dirty and worn and you know what I mean? And some of them, you know, the nicest ones I would kick off for my drug of choice. Right. And that was meth and spice eventually, you know, because I had been up for so long, you know, I needed a downer and spice was that downer. And so I was trying to find this balance. 

Brian [01:07:22] Was there any particular point in that timeframe that finally where you finally she told you were worth saving? 

Silence [01:07:29] Yeah. 

Brian [01:07:30] Was there a particular point in there where you realize that was true? Was there something in particular that kind of helped you come to that same understanding? 

Silence [01:07:38] Well, I was like, you know, there's this person that's believed in me, you know, for the past year. Right. And I've taken advantage of that. And to see myself as, you know, an addict and I, you know, been physically fighting with my girlfriend. So I was an addict and a womanizer and, you know, you know, homeless and just in need of everything. But I was like, you know, the fact that I was using this person that had all of this belief in me. Right. And kept giving me chance after chance. And the one thing that became more of a motivation than, you know, you know, committing suicide for myself was the fact that, like, I was a disappointment to the only person that showed any care about me, because obviously I didn't care about myself. I wanted to die. And here was this person that I was taking this time and this energy and this and all of these resources and just throwing him at me again and again in even though I was using him. And, you know, chances are that she knew that and was still giving me another chance. You know what I mean? Here is this person, you know, that cared about me and I didn't care about myself and the fact that I was a disappointment to the only person in the world that cared about me and care about myself. 

Brian [01:09:07] So she cared about you so consistently that you eventually began to believe that there was somebody there worth caring about. 

Silence [01:09:13] I didn't want to be a disappointment to the only person that cared about me, the only person that believed my life was worth something because I didn't, you know, being a disappointment to the only person that loves you, I that's what I, I couldn't stand in the fact that, you know, if I didn't take my own. Life that I was going to take somebody else's. And, you know, this this belief, this hope that I could live up to the care and the love that this other person had shown me. You know what I mean? With consistency more than I had myself. You know that I thought that was my hope, that eventually that I could prove myself to not only not be a disappointment, but to be worth the life that was being spent on my own. Yeah. 

Brian [01:09:54] What. What do you think has been the hardest part of your journey in the last six months or a year? It turns off for just a second. 

Silence [01:10:01] I think the hardest part in all of that is that regardless of how many times that I had failed or regardless of the individual that I had become, that this belief of somebody else's was had absolute truth. You know what I mean? For the fact to settle in that regardless of what I had been through or where I was, that I was there, that my life is worth it. You know what I mean? That that you know that God created me for a reason and wouldn't let me die. You know what I mean? Because he knew was worth it. And so, you know, the fact that, you know, so she was kind of like in a week in a like a guardian angel, right? Yeah, for sure. Because she was like, check it out. Like, you know, even if you don't believe in God, like God believes you worth it. And I believe the same as him, you know? Yeah. And, you know, everything happens for a reason. And so I'm just going to keep trying and keep track and you know what I mean? And little bit. Little bit as it goes. You know, I just her hope was that, you know, it would sink in, that I would be worth it. And my hope was that eventually that I would be and it seems now it's come to pass that. Yeah, it was true. Yeah. 

Brian [01:11:16] Yeah. I just had two thoughts where you're talking. One is it takes an incredible person to be able to see another person and see the worth in them. When they don't see the worth in themselves. 

Silence [01:11:24] That's when people need loved more. 

Brian [01:11:25] That's when. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But a lot of people only see the exterior and they only see what they've been programed to see and what they think is there. When the start of really trying to reach through that person and know that there's something else there that's being hidden, that's buried, that's not that even that person doesn't believe, is there? 

Silence [01:11:44] Well, it takes a certain amount of compassion to realize that people aren't necessarily who they are, how they are right now. 

Brian [01:11:53] Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well stated. The other thing I was thinking of. So what's your what are your goals now moving forward? What are the what are the next steps? 

Silence [01:12:03] Well, so initially one of my goals is, is, you know, to be able to follow in that inspiration. Right. That that the Nomad Alliance and Kseniya herself, you know, this person had faith in me that I could be, you know, potentially worth it. Right. And so to be able to what I've taken, right. To be able to make amends with being able to go through and have a determination to be able to give at least that much, if not possibly more. You know what I mean? My goal is to give more back than I took. Right. Because that's what a good man does. Right. Is for any situation that he gets into. Right. He gives more than he takes. Right. And so that's you know, what I'm trying to prove myself to be is a man true to his word and true to his deed. And, you know, and keep to my promises and in all aspects of my life. And not only that, but also be able to, in any given situation, be able to prove myself that regardless of the situation that I get myself into or that I surround myself with, that I can be, you know, a possibility for positive reinforcement, whatever the situation is that I can be in addition to the lives around me, because that's really what it's about, right? You know, once you're able to love yourself, then you're able to love others. And so now that I have this possibility of self worth right, and that I feel like I actually have the possibility and possibly already am, because I have been worth it all along. Yeah. That, that I can be able to, to, you know, use that as, as a way to, to care for others, others around me. Right. You know, like a man cares for his family, right? Or any person in general who, you know, is struggling. Right. Because I've been there. I've been in every kind of terrible situation, just like they have. So I feel like, you know, since I have the experience in, you know, some of the lowest that humanity has to offer, you know, it gives me a sense of compassion and then compulsion to be able to give back, because I know exactly how it feels to be in the same. They are. And it wasn't too long ago, and I have the ability to go through and be able to give back to something that was given to me and grow that gift and be able to pay it forward. 

Brian [01:14:41] That's beautiful. I mean, that's life, right? I mean, that's the whole purpose. I was going to ask you, and I think you'd already answered this, but if there's anything you'd like to add, you've seen the worst of humanity, and you've also seen the best of humanity. What's your view on humanity overall? 

Silence [01:14:57] I mean, you know, you know, slow and steady wins the race. I guess, you know, even though progress is slow, any progress is good progress. Right. And regardless of whether at the time, if it's viewed as a negative experience. Right. Everything is able to be learned from right. No matter how many times that you've failed in the past. Like take Benjamin Franklin, for example. Right. He failed thousands and thousands of times. Right. But this one time, he finally found the solution. Right. And. And created something entirely new just from one success. Yeah. That changed everything. Yeah. So that's. That's what I'm hoping to achieve myself, is that even though I've failed thousands and thousands of times, you know, all it takes is the knowledge of that one success to be able to change, change not only my life, but also the lives around me. And so, you know, try again. Yeah. 

Brian [01:15:55] Tell me about your name. 

Silence [01:15:56] Silence. Yeah. So how that came to be? It was a nickname when I was young, because, like the prodigal son. I didn't cry when I was a baby. And, you know, and then again, in ninth grade, there was there's a poem that I had written and I had just gotten into foster care. Right. And I was reflecting upon my time with my parents. Right. And I had and I had written a couple of beautiful, beautiful, very descriptive and moving poetic works. And this guy was like making fun of me, like, you know what I mean? Like, ooh, like, he's in touch with his emotions and how dare he and whatnot. Like, it was my soul being, being put onto this page, right? And it was exactly like I was able to explain with words like the emotion which is, which is rare. Right. Was able to convey that emotion onto the page. And people knew exactly how my soul had felt. And it was so, so deep that it was able to impact their souls and literally just like created Silence because they were speechless, right. By the way that it moved their spirit. And here is this guy was and he was making fun of it. And I became so angry that I elbowed him in the jaw and like, literally, like, dislocated his jaw. And so, like, so it was kind of like a dual double entendre there, you know? And I mean, that not only had my poem treated speechless as this and those who had heard it, you know, if they were. 

Brian [01:17:31] Elbow. 

Silence [01:17:31] If they were going to speak up and make fun of it, and then obviously there would also going to be silent, different side. Yeah, they were going to be silenced regardless, you know. And so, you know, you know, don't push a kind person into a corner, you know, kind of thing. And, you know, it's the quiet ones. You got to worry about that kind of thing. And so that's, you know, who I became, you know, when I moved into foster care and in this new place, you know, I just I strive to create a new persona for myself. And so I carried and carried that that nickname from my old town. And I was like, this is who I'm going to be, you know, because I don't know anybody here and things like that, you know, I'm just going to kind of like bide my time and be an observer and be a watcher and try to learn all of these new surroundings and things like that. And I'm just going to kind of keep to myself and kick back, you know what I mean? And if somebody wants to talk to me that they will, and then I'll be ready to conversate with them and things and find out about them. But, you know, necessarily, I was kind of like a shy guy. They had already gone through lots of trauma. And I wasn't willing to tell my story or connected with somebody. And until they, you know, initiate conversation, you know, kind of like with, you know, women, you know what I mean? They have to make the first move. You know what I mean? They have to be interested in me before, you know, I tell them anything, which is in some ways fairly appropriate. Yeah. You know, so I became silence. 

Brian [01:19:10] Do you still write any poetry? 

Silence [01:19:12] I, I have started to, I, I actually had a presentation with my, with my therapy, with my app. And the topic I chose was, was, was suicide in. And slash purpose for my initial step down presentation. And, you know, I went through and I defined different aspects of what it was to be a suicidal and you know, because anybody that's truly addicted to something, you know, typically is whether they realize it or not. And then purpose, you know what I mean? And what that entails. And went through a couple of definitions and created some a questionnaire. 15 questions for each of suicide and also have purpose and fairly really intelligent questions that would allow people to answer and open up if they wanted to or to, you know, pass on the question, you know, if they weren't comfortable being vulnerable in therapy session, in classes. And then I was going to finish up with this this piece of poetry that I had written. And I was like kind of like three quarters of the way through the first poem that I had written in five years, because, like, you know, when I became homeless, I lost all of the works because I kept the ones that I had been writing since ninth grade. And that was one thing that I kept all these different moves in all these different places was, was my, my, my, my notebooks with my poetry in it. And when I became homeless, I lost them all. And so, you know, and so that's one thing that I'm starting to pick back up. And I'm hoping to actually be able to share, you know, not only my image, but, you know, the, you know, the way that I feel with my soul. Yeah, um, through, through my experiences and be able to convey those onto a page once again, you know. 

Brian [01:21:19] I'd love to read it when you get to the point that we're ready to share because I think it would be amazing. Okay. 

Silence [01:21:24] But my style is, is that like, you know, I kind of have to read it. 

Brian [01:21:28] Oh, all right. Yeah. I would love to come to a reading that. 

Silence [01:21:30] Yeah, I like to vocalize my own works because. Yeah, you know, like I know how I feel and how I feel like I should read it, right? 

Brian [01:21:40] That would be. 

Silence [01:21:40] Great, too. So. So it's kind of like, you know, yeah, if you want to hear it, I'll definitely vocalize it. 

Brian [01:21:46] Yeah. I would love to give. 

Silence [01:21:47] Me a chance to work up a couple of pieces. I would love that of. I would. 

Brian [01:21:51] Love that. What else do we need to know about you? 

Silence [01:21:53] Um, well, you know, I don't know. I'm, uh, you know, throughout. Throughout all of this, actually, regardless, like, I've always kind of had a tenacity about me, right? Um, that's, that's something that homeless individuals have typically, unless they overdose, right? They have a sort of tenacity or di hardness about them, a resilience, if you will, because typically the majority of them have lost everything in their lives, their families, their loved ones, their material possessions, their in a sense, in any in every kind of factor and whatnot, typically. And, you know, have fallen into this sort of degradation. But regardless of how far they've fallen and regardless of what they've lost, you know, they're able to typically survive through it as long as they just, you know, don't overdose or are killed by somebody. Yeah. You know, and so it's kind of the thing is that, you know, that's typically why, you know, there's still so many homeless individuals, you know, because they survive long enough to eventually, you know, be hurt all depths of the ends of the earth and have gone through hell and decide, you know, eventually give life another try, because survive long enough to have a want to not hurt anymore. 

Brian [01:23:29] Yeah. And now you've turned that tenacity into helping others with that same tenacity. Yeah. 

Silence [01:23:34] Yeah. Country boy. 

Brian [01:23:35] Country boy. 

Silence [01:23:37] Yeah. You know how to survive in any situation. Yeah. 

Brian [01:23:42] Well, it has been a pleasure getting to know you. Thanks for your time and for coming over and sharing your story, sir. I really appreciate it. Yeah, well, definitely have to keep in touch, sir. 

Silence [01:23:53] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, by the way, for just let me just kind of like emotionally vomit into this microphone here. 

Brian [01:24:00] No, I hope it wasn't too painful. I hope you don't get what do they call it, a vulnerability. Hang over. 

Silence [01:24:07] PTSD. Thinking I was vulnerable in my own. Yeah, yeah. 

Brian [01:24:14] But I really do appreciate that opportunity to get to know you and thank you for your time. Is there anything else you want to say before we close? 

Silence [01:24:20] No, thank you so much. 

Kseniya [01:24:23] Silence is one of our first friends on the street and he was the first person we also approached to. About this crazy idea to implement a sexy nomad calendar and silence. Mr. July jokingly said that he will wash a shopping cart in Daisy Dukes the day of his photoshoot. He had all these contusions and bruises all over his face from getting into a fight, and yet he executed a really, really beautiful shoot with some incredible photos. You can purchase our calendar online. We have a 2023 calendar. You can also purchase a 2022 calendar if you'd like to see Mr. July the handsome. Silent. The Nomad Alliance is a group of concerned citizens operating largely like a mutual aid organization, to be there for the people that have been forgotten. The chronically unsheltered on the streets of Salt Lake City, we do everything from massive supply drives to provide tents and blankets and hygiene, food in a party like atmosphere with a deejay and seating where people are treated with dignity and are allowed to recreate and have fun. For a year, we had weekly empowerment workshops teaching self-defense, cognitive behavioral therapy, meditation for 5 hours a week, everyone's day to housing people and a property we formerly called the Secret Garden. Right now, we're working on some legislation sanctioned campground, the Homeless Bill of Rights, and other ways that we can staunch this epidemic because more and more people are falling into homelessness and things are really rough out there. People can learn more about us and know Madeline Story. There is hope. You can donate blankets and things for the winter hours. You can also make a generous cash contribution. We are a 100% volunteer organization, so 100% of all that you donate will go directly to the people that really, really need your help. Thank you. 

Brian [01:26:12] For more information on this episode or Silence or Kseniya's organization, NomadAlliance.org be sure to visit Silence’s episode page on StrangersYouKnowPodcast.com. 

Brian Thank you for listening to strangers, you know. If you're enjoying our conversations, please share us with a friend. Continue the conversation by sharing and liking on Facebook and social media, or for exclusive content and detailed show notes. Visit our website at StrangersYouKnowPodcast.com where you can subscribe to our newsletter or make a donation to support the show. Thank you for your support.